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Published on October 14th, 2013 | by Dr. Joel McDurmon

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How to get out of ObamaCare

During a radio interview recently, the host was shocked when I told him that Christians, generally, can get out of ObamaCare right now if they so choose. Really? How?

Many people are still not aware that health care sharing ministries like the one run by my friends at Samaritan Ministries lobbied and debated with Congress hard during the 2009 fight over ObamaCare. As a result of their efforts, and the nature and track record of the ministry, they earned an exemption from the individual mandate in ObamaCare for members of the sharing ministry.

Long story short, join Samaritan Ministries and you are exempt from ObamaCare’s individual mandate.

And this comes among the many other advantages of Samaritan, including the facts that sharing costs are in most cases much lower than insurance premiums, and that no money whatsoever ever funds or helps fund abortions, other planned-parenthood activities, or a variety of other sinful lifestyle consequences.

I am surprised that more Christians do not seem to be aware of this exemption. It has even received fairly mainstream news coverage, reports from Christian News, and others.

I was mildly amused a few days back to read an article from Reason.com called “Obamacare vs. Samaritan Health-Care Ministry: A Case Study.” The article is quite good in relating details and good case examples of Samaritan. But it carries what seems to me to be a pessimistic bias against the ministry. It says, “Samaritan may soon become a casualty of new incentives created by Obamacare,” because, “Under Obamacare, most Samaritan members will be able to purchase health insurance policies that offer richer benefits for lower prices, thanks to significant taxpayer subsidies.”

Samaritan’s vice president, James Lansberry, notes the obvious: Samaritan members join because of religious convictions, not merely financial benefits, especially government subsidies. But, the Reason author then argues, even just a tiny drop in membership can damage the ministry. It seems to me the guy wants the ministry to fail because of ObamaCare.

This amuses me somewhat because it shows an inherent tension of humanistic libertarianism. Note: Reason.com is not “liberal” like Slate or HuffPost. It is not pro-big-government. But it is not conservative or Christian, either. Rather, it is humanistic libertarian, as I said. It looks with scientistic, enlightened disdain upon faith and devout people of faith. In our God-gullibility and blind faith crutchism, we represent so much of what is holding back humanity.

So, Reason wants small government and liberty, but it does not know the Christ of liberty. It does not understand the sacrificial life necessary to reclaim liberty in a tyrannical world, nor does it understand the Christian faith necessary for such a sacrificial lifestyle to be viable among a group of people. Thus, it cannot believe that Christians will truly remain devout enough to maintain liberty when just a few hundred dollars of government subsidies are tossed their way.

What this article unwittingly shows is just that: maintaining freedom and liberty absolutely requires a devotion that transcends mere monetary incentives. Personal responsibility means personal effort and personal sacrifice, and without this, tyranny will inevitably grow. It also shows that despite all talk of enlightenment and scientific progress, Reason’s view of man is quite pessimistic: he can be herded instinctively under tyranny with mere economic incentive; he will not sacrifice to stand on principles of faith.

Sacrificing for liberty is, of course, one of the main themes of Restoring America One County at a Time, including the chapter on welfare and health care in which I first prescribed Samaritan Ministries as the Christian vaccination against ObamaCare. Read my relevant articles in chapter two, Welfare.

If you’d like to read the actual exemption for yourself, check out Section 1501(d)(2)(B) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act where “Religious Exemptions” for “Health Care Sharing Ministry” are encoded. The same law is repeated as Section 5000A(d)(2)(B) of the IRS Code.

Or you can just call Samaritan now and let them explain it to you. They will help you with any other questions as well.

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About the Author

Dr. Joel McDurmon

Joel McDurmon, Ph.D. in Theology from Pretoria University, is the Director of Research for American Vision. He has authored seven books and also serves as a lecturer and regular contributor to the American Vision website. He joined American Vision's staff in the June of 2008. Joel and his wife and four sons live in Dallas, Georgia.



40 Responses to How to get out of ObamaCare

  1. The Missourian says:

    Missouri Leadership in May of 2012 had the opportunity to pass a bill that would have nullified Obamacare implementation. But they failed to do so because a lot of folks just aren’t involved in their local government like they should be. Christians especially. Sure there might be one or two options that we’ll be forced into in order to deal with the Affordable Care Act, but the fact is that we’re dealing with ever more liberty lost in our communities. When will we actually take a stand for the truth?

    If interested, take a look at Missouri Tenth’s Nov. 7, 2013 article, Missouri’s Young People and Obamacare at: http://missouritenth.com/2013/11/07/missouris-young-people-and-obamacare/

  2. Lois says:

    Our food/water system is to make us addictive, get sick, and then the AMA/pharma industry rakes in major profits. Population control.

    In the last nearly 60 years….junk food, chemicals in our water, fast foods, refined grains, lack of nutrients, is it any wonder why there is so much disease, sickness.

    The nation has become dependent on the AMA/pharma. We should start trying to depend on ourselves. Food is our best medicine. Quality food, herbs

  3. Mark says:

    the other thing i would say is that we who have do owe others our assistance. the bible says to own no person anything except love. love shelters, heals, clothes and feeds. how? it shelters others exactly how it shelters itself. it feeds others exactly what it eats… we are to love our neighbors as ourselves.

    our failure to live as Jesus asked is exactly why we have obamacare. we christians weren’t doing our job! we didn’t preach about sin and repentance so people made lots of bad choices. we didn’t really believe Jesus so we made many bad choices. we didn’t love! so, now it’s being mandated!

    instead of rebelling against it we should embrace it. like Jeremiah told the Jews during their captivity they should seek the good of the city. they should not listen to false prophets. this is a time for repentance and a time to do good. it is not a time to separate and put down authority. God sets up kings and presidents. We’ve earned this president! he came into office because so many christians voted for him. now it’s time to have families and live the way we should instead of complaining and being selfish.

    • GQ4U says:

      Who is your neighbor? I don’t believe you understand what a Biblical neighbor is. This Old Testament command was made to God’s children, not the world. Christians failed Christians by not obeying the will of God and taking care of our brothers in Christ as He told us to. Instead we broke apart, formed 3,300 denominations and fought like the Crusades — pathetic. My brother or neighbor is not the sinner I encounter on a daily basis because he is an enemy of God; he is the world the Father loved in John 3:16. I am to love him and present the truth of the good news to him by word and deed and if he listens and repents then he becomes a child of God and thus my neighbor.

      Christ Himself healed the sick but he didn’t heal all the sick on Earth, which is an easy task for Him even today. We have disease, ailments and death because of the sin in the Garden; we are captives of that sin and suffer along with the world in what God mandated as His penalty for disobeying His rules, so why doesn’t your theology embrace what you preach — “during their captivity they should seek the good of the city” and accept that disease is simply one of God’s good decisions and to fight it is to fight against God? For men to seek their own wisdom to save themselves epitomizes man’s foolishness.

      As Christians we are no longer captives of sin but neither have we yet been liberated from the “city” that is ruled by it. If your position of acquiescing to kings and presidents is at the Heart of God then He would have cursed Daniel instead of pulling him from the lion’s den unharmed. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego would have been consumed in a fiery furnace for “not seeking the good of the city” but were instead rescued without so much as singed clothing from a heat so intense it killed the would be executioners as they cast them into the fire. These are the kind of men who are my brothers and my neighbors. Those who attempted to harm them died without mercy or forgiveness as is God’s way.

      I love Jesus the Christ, He provided the way of my salvation, and He always told His followers to look to the Father in Heaven and give God all glory and honor, to never look to man’s wisdom to provide a solution for the world’s problems. Love cannot be legislated into someone’s heart and neither can compassion and when the “state” dictates them they create their polar opposite — fear & loathing. ObamaCare is ungodly; it forces us into conformity to a godless regime or face punishment. How long before those who rule over us fire up the furnace to destroy all those who will not conform? Who will not bend their knee and worship them? Who will rise up like Esther and face death to confront a king and defiantly declare him wrong? How should we react to an oligarchy as it constructs a new lion’s den? What would Daniel do? Jesus tells of a day of judgment when religious goats are separated from His sheep and I am not willing to be a goat by assuming to be more benevolent than God the Creator.
      (Study Mathew 23; understand Mathew 25: 31-46 and who He describes are the “least of these”)

      PS: There is no Biblical health care insurance. One Christian is healed but his brother dies. God has His reasons and that is good enough for me. He has allowed mankind to exist since Adam and Eve were cast from Eden without health insurance, or mandated health care because these are in reality His role in our lives not the government.

  4. Minh says:

    NutriMedical.com

    for Christian M.D. trauma surgeon microbiologist whistleblower with insider experience in USA’s secret gov and daily radio show.

    Call in about smuggled W.H.O. files or face-off to FEMA shooting perimeters. Hear him on “polypharma” drugs too.

    He practiced in Canada and USA and now sells best supplements on the market. Take them, eat right, need no doctors.

    Better without insurance now — collect saved premiums as gold and silver coins. In medical emergency, they’ll pay for it.

    Tips to save computer expenses:
    henrymakow.com/2013/07/Bill-Gates-Porn-Addict-Days%20.html
    and
    TorProject.org
    recently in big news
    works against “Them”

  5. Brother Les says:

    Does anyone know someone that has signed up and is getting insurance from these ‘exchanges’?
    The system does not work and was never meant to work and is only a gathering information center from the working poor. Information goes straight to the NSA. If you have no ‘income’, you do not qualify and go on the medi program. Insuranve companies want people that they can suck dry at the cost of ‘client’ and doctor/hospital. Any of the working poor who are in the ‘system’ will be rounded up when the collapse happens and taken to FEMA camps and be disappeared for the greater good of the elites.

  6. Pat says:

    Tell you what. If someone comes up with a Christian alternative medical care organization, I’m all ears. Any takers?

    Remember, our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. If people aren’t willing to trust God’s remedies, what kind of Christians are we, anyway?

    • GQ4U says:

      Christian alternative health care is faith. According to Acts 5:12-16 many were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them. Lack of Faith is mankind’s greatest disease and none of Obama’s insurance exchanges cover that preexisting condition. God can heal anything.

      • Pat says:

        No, the current movements to rely on faith are all cults. Every single one. The Christian alternative is the herbs and foods God gave us. Faith is our act of embracing our salvation, and we can HOPE for healing, through prayer and anointing. But we are not given any promises, and if we are not healed, then that is in God’s sovereignty and has nothing to do with our level of faith. Faith is the gift of the Holy Spirit anyway. And remember, we all have to pass through physical death. Death happens when we are not healed.

        The point is, neither O-care nor organizations such as this one are alternatives for those of us who choose to rely on God’s remedies instead of poisonous drugs. I would like to see a Christian organization that doesn’t share costs for poisons, but instead, shares costs for God’s remedies.

        Regardless of any other consideration, people who take poisonous drugs excrete them and they get into the water supply, and most people end up drinking drugs that were never prescribed for them. The moment a Christian realizes that taking poisonous drugs helps poison other people, if he doesn’t stop and find a better way, then he is guilty of murder.

        We are forgiven in Christ, but we are also told to turn from sin. Certainly if we keep taking poisonous drugs, we are not turning from our sin.

  7. Sonny says:

    There is another way to opt out of Obamacare. Stop volunteering to be a taxpayer and choose to be responsible for yourself. To “choose” not to be a “taxpayer” requires much study and homework about the system of commercial agreements you have volunteered into. If one acts rashly in this area, they will be blugeoned by the system they haven’t learned about. The system is deliberately tedious and confusing because they have different definitions for the seemingly same English words (legalese). SEDM.org is a good starting point. It will take you about a year to read through and learn how to be responsible and a good steward. Again, rash decisions have serious consequences. It’s all about commercial agreements. You have agreed to it. Now you’re suffering, and It’s up to you study and learn what the remedy is. No one else can learn for you. Be diligent. There is hope, and it starts with repentance…. ours first; then the governments of all nations … bringing them under the footstool of Christ.

    • Pat says:

      Sorry, but that dog don’t hunt. I am thoroughly familiar with what you are suggesting. Unless you can go around telling people how to do this and charging money for it, you will starve. It’s an adhesion contract. You can’t get out of it. You won’t be able to get a job, and you could wind up in prison. I know people who have. This is all a bunch of bunk. Don’t pay attention, folks! It’s NOT the solution.

  8. Nathan says:

    (1) Samaritan Ministries is a direct person-to-person health care sharing ministry. It’s not insurance, but is purely Christians helping Christians.
    (2) We emphasize prayer, ministry, and personal responsibility and accountability. See http://samaritanministries.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/20130614Guidelines.pdf
    That link shows our Guidelines that show what we do or don’t allow. You would have no fear of your money going toward any immoral medical costs. There is local Church accountability involved too.
    (3) You would be exempt from any tax penalties under the Affordable Care Act (see http://samaritanministries.org/healthreform )
    (4) We have members in all 50 states, and in many other countries. Our full name is Samaritan Ministries International.
    (5) We’re less expensive than alternatives.
    (6) Though not generally shared, there are still ways to receive help and prayer from members for your routine, dental, vision, and pre-existing medical costs.

    I’m not getting paid to post this…i just love the ministry. It is very kingdom-focused. Give us a call, pray about it, and consider joining.

    • Mary McAlister says:

      Would love to if it was willing to help with my husband and son’s diabetes–not the day to day things, but the long-term consequences of having diabetes for many years. Even with perfect lifestyle choices diabetes can cause health effects that are very costly and are the main reason we have health insurance. If these things are exempted, then it does us no good whatsoever.

      • Pat says:

        Mary, it depends on whether your husband and son have type 1 diabetes, or type 2. If type 2, that can be CURED. Check out Dr. Mercola, naturalnews, and the doctors that are affiliated with NewsMax. You’ll have to read a bit, but they have that information. It involves dietary changes that can readily be done. And there are some herbs that help considerably, such a real cinnamon, bitter melon, and others. If they have type 1, then they should seek adult stem cell treatment. If they can get it, this may also permanently cure it. Check it out.

  9. Pat says:

    There is one critically important piece of information missing from this. Samaritan is just like health insurance because it subsidizes the purchase of POISONOUS pharmaceutical drugs. One reason I am not interested in medical insurance is because I DO NOT WANT THESE DRUGS IN MY BODY, AND I DON’T WANT TO SUBSIDIZE THEM FOR ANYONE ELSE, EITHER. God put remedies for our health in the plants, and also provided that our bodies will make substances that maintain our health, which, if our bodies age and don’t produce enough, we can also supplement. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. I believe that the injunction against polluting our bodies extends to not taking poison. God didn’t design our bodies to thrive if we give ourselves poison. In fact, pharmaceutical drugs SUPPRESS normal functions of the body because they’re out of balance. They do not restore the balance to our body. The herbs do restore this balance, and so does taking substances our bodies should be making but no longer do. Another consideration is that people excrete pharmaceutical drugs, and this goes into the water supply, and everyone gets drugged, whether they SHOULD be or not, and it is unconscionable for us to pollute other people’s water. The result is that Samaritan is no different from health insurance from my particular perspective, so it is not a viable solution for me. I pay for my own supplements out of my own pocket. That’s the way it should be. It is actually cheaper than health insurance, and quite possibly cheaper than Samaritan as well. I would buy insurance for catastrophic accidents, if I could get it. Allopathic doctors (medical establishment doctors) do an excellent job of patching up catastrophes, whether due to accident, or serious genetic defects. That’s ALL they are competent at doing. There are quite a few people who agree with me, but most of them may not consider themselves Christians. It is time that people actually noticed us. There is no exemption from Obamacare for people like us.

    (My Facebook comment did not show up in its entirety; hence, I leave the same comment here.)

  10. Bill Potter says:

    If your pre-existing condition is that you smoke an occasional pipe or cigar or drink wine I don’t think you can pass the screening. BP

    • Heather says:

      Samaritan Ministries doesn’t have a health screening. Occasional alcohol and celebratory cigars are ok. You must live a Christian lifestyle. No drinking to drunkenness, no smoking, no sex outside of marriage. You must attend church regularly and have your application signed by your minister.

      • Nancy says:

        “”…Look how these people wear their churches as a garment! For they take much pride in their own names, they are puffed up. See how they walk about, with their heads held high, speaking proudly, taking no time to stop and listen… THEY REFUSE TO HEAR!
        I tell you the truth, their faces are covered in shame! Their nakedness is uncovered, their rebellion is made plain! Their ears are full of their perverse doctrines, and their detestable traditions are always upon their lips! There is no light in them and darkness covers them… They are unable to see. …””

        http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Come_Out_From_Among_Them%21_Says_The_Lord

  11. Luke Warm No More says:

    Please just be careful to review ALL the agreements when signing up.

    Last year I applied for family coverage with one of the other Christian Health orgs. At the very end of the process after we were basically approved and set to go, one of the final conditions was that you had to open a bank account at a specified Credit Union. The Credit Union in question (which was supposedly also run by Christian individuals) had a horrible so called ‘Privacy Policy’ that indicated they could/would share or sell your information to their internal affiliates as well as other marketers. Also, you could not opt out of this and that they could continue to do so even after you stopped doing business with them.

    After trying to get a waiver to this with no success, I decided this was not a place to do business with, and we did not go with that health plan. Sadly, many secular institutions have much better privacy rights than this.

  12. Heather says:

    I’m not convinced Obamacare will be cheaper (than Samaritan or other healthcare sharing ministries) for families even with the subsidies. Mostly because the deductibles and copays and total out of pocket costs are so much higher with Obamacare. Even with a subsidy, Samaritan is still cheaper for our family when you factor everything together. Another casualty of Obamacare exchange policies are the reduction in available docs “in network.” With Samaritan I can choose any doctor I want, there are no network restrictions. This puts me in charge of my healthcare, not politicians. I encourage everyone to make the decision that is best for them, but I do not think Samaritan membership will shrink from Obamacare, I think it will grow steadily. The added benefit of contributing directly to a family in need, sharing prayers with those who need it and generally knowing I am taking an active roll in my healthcare and those of other Christians puts Samaritan far above everything else.

  13. 57girl says:

    We have an illegal President in the White House cramming a law down our throats, nobody wants any part of, unless someone else is footing their costs for them. It seems to me if we all just refused to sign up, Obama would have to slink back under his rock and admit defeat. This is America. We are supposed to be free to make our own choices, the way I understand, the way freedom works. So what’s the problem? Just refuse to buy it. What’s the White House Imposter going to do? Arrest us all? Then we’ll all get free room and board, medical and dental … LOL. I wonder how long that will last?

    Is it any wonder our Nation is swirling down the tubes? This whole thing would be funny, if our Nation Sovereignty wasn’t at stake. In reality, while we’re arguing about Obamacare, the debt ceiling, etc., our borders are being erased right under our noses, and nobody seems to notice. That I do, seriously worry about. Because when our borders are gone, so is what is left of our Constitution is gone, too. The UN has sneaked through the backdoor, and they are taking over.

  14. Larry Ball says:

    Health share ministries are great for those able to join while they are healthy. For those responsible Christians with pre-existing conditions, it is no better than secular health insurance programs. It is not the alternative panacea for all Christians.

    • Debbie says:

      With Samaritan Ministries, most pre-existing conditions are covered after the first year and you can still be accepted into the program with only that particular condition being excluded. (Pre-existing heart disease and diabetes are excluded, though.) This is much better than we found when applying for individual health insurance a few years ago.

  15. Ducky says:

    Yeah, Reason. Not sure if it’s that they want Obamacare to be successful or they have a bias against Christianity or religion in general – not all of the writers. I think they threw Ron Paul under the buss because Paul was not a pro-abort but went with Gary Johnson. Really, I think they did it because they were trying to look cool with the cocktail crowd but only came up looking like dorks. Oh, well, live and learn…maybe.

    Though I did see a Sheldon Richman article in there and Napolitano.

  16. donl says:

    I have often wondered if the churches had health insurance programs if the cost would be lower and be exempt from Obamacare.

  17. Evie says:

    The problem with pre-existing conditions is not whether or not they are covered by insurance plans. The problem is the high cost of medical supplies and pharmaceuticals that make people seek out coverage for their conditions. If care were affordable people with pre-existing conditions wouldn’t be in a bind. I prefer concierge medical care where treatment is about health and not money. Also, I would be more likely to sign up for cost sharing if it weren’t only focused on mainstream medicine. If I had cancer, I wouldn’t do what they want to pay for. I’d go the alternative route, which costs money as well. Why should I pay for others to take meds that are killing them, but I can’t be helped by using methods proven to work?

    • Robert Pegram says:

      I ( and a lot of other people) are in the same predicament.

    • Pat says:

      I’m with you. As I said, I am not interested in subsidizing other people taking poisons. Concierge medical care is beyond our budget, and as my husband pointed out, you have to find a qualified doctor. A qualified doctor is someone who will use alternatives and not drugs.

      I think one of the purposes of all this is to put alternatives out of business. A number of alternative practitioners have been hounded out of my state by the government, cutting off my access to their care.

      They’re “ignoring” us, but make no mistake. They INTEND to make sure that our access to alternatives is cut off. Better bone up on the alternatives in the grocery store and your yard, and better get as healthy as you can as quickly as you can, and stop eating sugar and carbs. I already have enough information I will probably be able to do OK with what I can harvest from the wilds around my house. Most people are not in that position. They cut off access to a substance that occurs naturally in plants, and I know where to get it.

      Do you see what is going on here? It should become obvious. The problem is, most Americans (81% according to Rasmussen) trust their doctors. That trust is misplaced, as you have shown. Until we stop trusting people who accept abortionists as colleagues and who are willing to be bribed to feed their patients poison, we will continue to suffer from our health care system in whatever form it is. Get rid of Obamacare, and this basic problem remains. The whole system is built on feeding people poison. We need a much more fundamental change.

      I’d say our resident is a fascist (among other things). He wants to protect pharmaceutical companies, and he doesn’t care about anybody else.

  18. Mary McAlister says:

    The exemption for Samaritan Ministries and Christian Care Medi-Share are great, but they are not helpful for families like mine with people who have chronic conditions that need frequent preventive care that is not included in the Samaritan Ministries coverage. Also, any effects of those chronic conditions are not covered. From my perspective, if you have health conditions which require regular care you are out of luck, but if you are healthy and only need coverage for emergencies and catastrophes you are all set. For families like mine we’d be paying twice.

    • TIA says:

      Mary,

      You say that your family has chronic conditions that need frequent preventative care. How is Samaritan Ministries worse than any other option? The whole idea of health insurance and the Christian health sharing programs is to take care of unexpected expenses, not to cover routine expenses, ongoing health problems, or pre-existing conditions.

      You can’t buy fire insurance after your house has already burned down. And you can’t expect to get flood insurance if you live in a flood plain unless you are willing to pay more than someone who doesn’t. If you are sticking with insurance that you had before the chronic condition began, that makes sense. Otherwise, you are merely requiring others to subsidize your healthcare costs.

      I don’t know all the details of your specific situation, so please don’t take this as a personal attack. I’m just trying to lay out some general principles. One of the major problems with healthcare in America (and most developed countries) is that since people aren’t responsible for paying their own healthcare costs, there is less incentive to stay healthy. Someone else is going to foot the bill anyway.

      Of course, there are other reasons why people want to be healthy, but eliminating the financial aspect certainly encourages people to not take as much personal responsibility for their own health. Samaritan Ministries encourages healthy living both for financial reasons and also as being good stewards of the bodies God has given us.

      • mark says:

        Tia,

        Wanting to be healthy? Many people with chronic health problems are that way through no fault of their own. So, you’re analogies don’t hold up. Many people with cancer, accident victims, arthritis, down’s syndrome, etc. are that way because we live in a fallen world not because they made bad choices. Jesus took care of people, especially people with chronic health problems. We are told to love each other. I don’t think we’re told to love each other only when it makes financial sense. If you refuse the obamacare plan because you’re healthy but embrace it if you’re chronically sick, or, if you partner only with healthy people and abandon the sick, then you’ve betrayed any Christian principle you claim to hold. You’re just watching out for yourself. You’re no different than the millions of hopeful scammers who sign up for obamacare knowing they’re pushing their medical bills off onto others.

        mark

        • TIA says:

          Mark,

          I understand that people can have chronic health problems even though they’ve tried to take good care of themselves. However, that doesn’t make it right for people to sign up for Christian health sharing after they develop a chronic condition and expect others to cover their costs. If they really believed in that principle, why weren’t they signed up before they developed the condition? I know that the concept is relatively new to a lot of people (this is a failure of the church), but these types of programs have been around for over 20 years.

          I completely agree with the principle of loving one another and sharing one another’s burdens. But forcing someone to pay someone else’s medical expenses is not love. There is nothing wrong with asking for help, but demanding that a fellow believer give you a gift is not love.

          “You’re no different than the millions of hopeful scammers who sign up for obamacare knowing they’re pushing their medical bills off onto others.”

          But this is exactly what you’re advocating yourself–just a “Christian” version based on “love.”

        • Pat says:

          I’d have to say I disagree with both of you. These groups are paying for people to be able to afford to poison themselves with toxic pharmaceutical drugs. People become emotionally dependent on these drugs because of medical terrorism: their doctors tell them that they’ll die or suffer some serious consequences if they don’t take these poisons. When you participate, you not only help them pay for the poisons, but you help them pay for new poisons to deal with the consequences of taking the first poisons. And in the meantime, these people are excreting these poisons and they get into the water supply and then we all get poisoned, whether we know it or consent or not.

          That’s not Christian compassion.

          The argument that we are being forced to pay for existing conditions doesn’t hold water, either. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to participate in these organizations. We need to address the fact that O-care isn’t leaving an option for people who want to trust in God and His remedies.

          Appropriate insurance will insure against catastrophes, such as accidents, which is what the medical profession handles well. It will provide to some extent for people who have congenital conditions and other such things that require corrective surgery and other appropriate kinds of care. I would consider such, or an organization that does this, provides for help with natural remedies that God gave us, and nothing else. I don’t think such an organization exists. And it poses a problem because people usually choose what remedies to take, so there needs to be some control, preferably in the form of consultation with a natural practitioner who designs a program for a person, or it should cover some basic supplements. But consider that a person can either directly pay for these himself (they’re not beyond most people’s budgets) or run the costs through the organization first, and pay for them anyway, minus administrative costs.

          The basic problem is lack of accountability. Third party payers means that the actual recipients have no control over the costs of their care, or what it costs to share in the care of other people who may not have been as prudent.

          And finally, some catastrophic conditions are brought on by poor choices in the past anyway. Take for example cerebral palsy caused by early birth that was caused by a woman having an abortion in the past. God’s forgiveness is freely given to the woman who repents. But the earthly consequences don’t just evaporate. Either we screen out that family, or some of us who avoided these risks help pay for those who did not.

          I don’t see an answer. All I can tell you is that joining a group that pays for other people’s poisons isn’t a solution for me.

      • Mary McAlister says:

        Tia: As Tom Penning said above, Samaritan Ministries and similar groups will not cover anything associated with diabetes, which both my husband and son have. My husband acquired at age 21 when he was active, underweight and doing all the “right things.” My son acquired it when he was two, so he hardly had a chance to undertake unhealthful habits. Both are under good control with insulin, which is not a poisonous pharmaceutical, Pat, but a hormone missing from their bodies that they would die without. However, if, down the line they have problems associated with having diabetes for a number of years, they would be out of luck if we went with Samaritan’s Ministries. As Tom said, would the Good Samaritan have helped with “pre-existing conditions?” I don’t think he asked the victim about his lifestyle choices. I am blessed to have health insurance for now, but have looked into these options thinking that they might be something to consider down the line, and was disappointed to see the exclusions.

        • Mark says:

          everyone has a chronic, fatal, health condition. it’s called life! for most people 95% of their healthcare expenditures will occur in the first and last five years of their lives. i wonder what this plan will do as their population ages. it commonly costs in excess of $6000/month for elder care in a nursing home.

          like their website says – it is not insurance. they are clear that your bills are yours and yours alone. you may pay and others might send you shares. but, they might not.

          if you have a baby with a genetic defect, have a stroke, heart attack, discover you have arthritis, cancer, diabetes, get in a car accident, are the victim of crime, develop a mental health issue… you have a maximum lifetime potential benefit of $250,000 IF your condition is even permitted to be eligible for a share.

          i worked in healthcare all my life. self-pay is by far the most expensive way to purchase health services. going with this plan guarantees you the highest possible costs and the maximum risk.

          i’m not against insurance. after all! everybody engages in some form of insurance. no matter what you believe, if you or anyone else, stiffs a doctor, hospital, clinic, nurse or any other healthcare provider, the rest of us pay. so, we are already paying each other’s bills. even if you don’t stiff anyone, the prices you pay reflect the inefficiencies and cost of sin because of others.

          this plan is unethical because it pretends to be spiritual and avoid entanglement with the world while leaving members at a huge physical, emotional and financial risks. you cannot be part of this health plan and avoid obamacare.

          this is just a group of healthy people cutting out everyone they think is sick. even members of this group will find themselves outside their excommunicated from the group if they get too sick. they don’t give a damn what happens to the Mary M’s and others. meanwhile they stick their pious noses in the air and pat themselves on the back for being good christians. after all like Pat says it’s their fault they’re sick and besides who wants to facilitate them poisoning themselves. Pat = Jesus = Not

        • Pat says:

          Mark, sometimes self-pay is the least expensive, especially if you don’t take poisons. And we found out the hard way that trying to use Medicare is more expensive than paying a small bill outright. They charge extra for the cost of handling Medicare, and the amount left in co-pay is higher than the bill would be without Medicare. As for your MISQUOTATION of what I said, I find your condemnation rather despicable, because that’s NOT what I said. I believe there are natural ways to heal most conditions, even many congenital ones, and these are usually inexpensive, and the mere fact I don’t want to pay people to poison themselves has nothing to do with whether or not congenital conditions can be managed or healed with natural means.

          Mary, I know what insulin is. The problem is not usually that there isn’t enough insulin. It’s that the cells are no longer sensitive to insulin. So it’s a sledgehammer kind of approach. In spite of the fact that your loved ones apparently developed their conditions in spite of healthy living doesn’t change my recommendation that you look into natural alternatives, and into adult stem cell therapy. If the cells can be made sensitive to insulin again, then there is no need for them to take insulin, and it will be far less damaging than taking insulin. There is an imbalance in the body. Read up on leptins. So please do follow the suggestions I gave you. You will undoubtedly learn a great deal, and just maybe you will learn what you need to know to bring healing to your family members. If your son didn’t get diabetes until he was 2, there is a chance it’s type 2 rather than type 1. So please look into it.

          And I agree that the kind of exclusions this group seems to have are not Christian.

          And, to whomever, not everyone has insurance of some kind. The Amish do not. And they tend to be quite healthy. And I knew plenty of Lutherans who didn’t believe in insurance, either. As for us, we carry a very minimum amount of insurance that is not required by law, except for life policies. That’s because people can no longer count on either their children or the community to take care of them. This is not Christian, either. We haven’t had health insurance for years. We have saved more money than we have spent on the remedies that keep us healthy. I don’t think that is likely to change. We’re both 70-ish, and we’re doing very, very well. As long as we keep following God’s remedies, we should be fine until He takes us Home.

    • Toni says:

      Same here. Except that we CAN’T pay twice. We can’t even pay for what we need medically now. We can’t afford insurance, we can’t afford the medical care we need right now, we can’t afford the Christian sharing ministries, and we can’t afford Obamacare, yet we would not be exempt from Obamacare penalties. Obamacare should not force me into buying any insurance, not even from the wonderful Christian sharing ministries from which I would buy IF I could afford it. There is a group of us out here that are truly caught in the middle.

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