Apologetics Jesus was a Commie

Published on April 30th, 2012 | by Gary DeMar

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Movie Director Matthew Modine Says the Bible Teaches that Jesus was a “Commie”

“I think that you could define [Jesus] as a Utopian communist, where people would work together to solve our problems,” Modine told The Christian Post. I’m all for working together to solve our problems. But that’s not Communism. Communism is forcing people to work for the goals of the State, and the State is a bunch of elites who claim they know what’s best for all of us. In the end, it’s these leaders who get the utopian spoils while the masses suffer.

Modine offers this simplistic reading of the Gospel accounts:

“According to the Bible, Jesus and his followers chose to own nothing, and shared their belongings. There were no needy people among them. Those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales, put it at the Apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. By this definition, Jesus and his followers were communists.”

The key word is “chose.” Being able to choose is not communism. In fact, Jesus’ disciples did not take a vow of poverty. Peter still owned a home in Capernaum (Matt. 8:14–17; Mark 1:29–31; Luke 4:38), and when he thought Jesus’ death ended it all for him, he returned to his family’s fishing business (John 21:1–14). Paul made his living as a tentmaker (Acts 18:1–3). Unlike Communists who covet what others have, Paul word with his own hands and used some of what he earned to help others (20:33–35). This can’t be done in a Communist system (Phil. 4:14–16). The list of attempts at failed Communist systems is a long one.(1)

Modine jumps outside the gospels and tries to make his case by an appeal to the actions of the early followers of Jesus in the book of Acts (2:44–45 and 4:32–37). R.J. Rushdoony puts the events in their proper historical context:

“The ‘communism’ of the early church, in Acts, was not economic in any sense, and should not be considered as an economic experiment. The church took seriously our Lord’s prophecy concerning the coming fall of Jerusalem (Matthew 24). They knew that they were living in a doomed city and country. The logical step of faith was to make liquid their assets for ready flight. Some who made liquid their assets dedicated their funds in part or whole to the church, for the evangelization of Judea before its destruction [Luke 21:20–24].

The relief money collected by Paul was not collected because an economic experiment had failed at Jerusalem and Judea. Men there continued in their vocations, simply living in rented properties, since their assets had been made liquid. The problem was a severe drought which had struck the entire area [Acts 11:28], creating a serious economic crisis and extreme shortages of food [Rom. 15:25–26; 1 Cor. 16:1–3]. This is a matter of historical record. Outside help was needed by virtually all in Judea, and the Christians were no exceptions. Thus, ‘communism’ had nothing to do with it, and did not exist in the early church. Because the Christians were prepared for ready flight by our Lord’s words, and by reason of having divested themselves of properties, none lost their lives in the fateful war with Rome, A.D. 66–70.”(2)

There would not have been the ability to help their fellow Christians who were suffering from the effects of famine (Acts 11:28) if Communism was operating since there wouldn’t have been any money to give. There wouldn’t have been any property to make available to those in need.

There was no government intervention, no command to sell everything, no directive for the people to give up all their possessions. In fact, Peter makes it clear that at every point in the sale of the property it was theirs to do with as they decided. This is made clear in the Ananias and Sapphira story: “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? . . .  (Acts 5:4). John R. Richardson writes:

No one was forced into giving up his goods and possessions. It was not socialism legislated either by church or state. It does not resemble modern communism in any respect. . . . Ananais was freed to keep or sell his property. When he sold it, he had the right to determine whether he would give all of it, or part of it, or none of it, into the treasury of the church for the alleviation of the needs of poor Christians. J. W. Lipscomb is certainly correct when he says, “The program was a voluntary expression of Christian concern for the needs of fellow Christians, and was not a program for compulsory collectivism such as we hear advocated all too often today.”(3)

God did not command these early Christians to sell all their possessions in the name of communal living and wealth redistribution. There is no directive in the rest of the book of Acts or the epistles

No one is stopping Modine from selling all his possessions and living the communal life. Will it happen? Don’t bet on it. He’s like the early John Lennon who imagined “no possessions” and left an estate of around $200 million.

Modine says that his short film isn’t really about Communism but cooperation. The only way people can cooperate is if they’re free. People don’t cooperate in communist countries. The free market is the biggest cooperative in the world. Billions of equal trades — I’ll give you this for that — are made every day. There’s no coercion. If you don’t want something, you don’t have to buy it. If you don’t like one price, you can shop around for a better price.

It’s only when governments get involved that cooperation is lost. People are forced to comply with rules and regulations that separate real consumers from actual sellers. Consider mortgages. The government got involved in the name of “fairness” (communism) and insured loans that a cooperative free market would not have made. The result? The most financially vulnerable consumers were hurt.

Endnotes:

  1. See Gary North, Puritan Economic Experiments.()
  2. From a personal letter written by R. J. Rushdoony sent to John R. Richardson and cited in Christian Economics: The Christian Message to the Market Place (Houston: St. Thomas Press, 1966), 60.()
  3. Richardson, Christian Economics, 61.()
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About the Author

Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. He is the author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles, His most recent book is Exposing the Real Last Days Scoffers. Gary lives in Marietta, Georgia, with his wife, Carol. They have two married sons and four grandchildren, Gary and Carol are members of Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA).



20 Responses to Movie Director Matthew Modine Says the Bible Teaches that Jesus was a “Commie”

  1. uhwheeler says:

    Whether a capitalist model or communist model, institutional coercion exists. There is no absolute freedom when anyone lives within the social and/or legal confines of social system. Though there is not absolute freedom, there is most certainly choice. John Locke & Thomas Hobbes’ theory of the “social contract” argues that anyone living within any country has chosen to live there and is engaging in a “social contract” with the government. The social contract idea is part of the reasoning behind the US’s continued debate over states’ rights (that someone can move somewhere else if they don’t like the laws of a particular state).

    I personally think that the “social contract” view is a limited view in that it doesn’t take into account the weight of familial ties and cultural identification. However, it can be useful window through which to look out the degree to which an individual “chooses” to participate in a particular social/legal system.

    That philosophical tangent aside, I wasn’t alive 2000 years ago, and so I don’t think that I can speak with absolute certainty as to the actual actions – or the beliefs spurring those actions – of Jesus, the Apostles, or of anyone else living at that time.

  2. Jose Sanchez says:

    “Grace empowers and motivates. God gives ALL power to make choices. That is how people can make a choice to lay down their weapons or their money, as they see the need. In fact, the Bible teaches that we all only choose God because He first chose us and empowered us to make the choice (but we still had to choose). It’s quite binary: say “yes” and you get to go to the next empowering choice, but say “no” and you are stuck with a hardened heart until God moves on you again (if HE chooses). ”

    I agree 100% and I also arrived to the same conclusion. This is why I believe that a correct understanding of Jesus Christ makes any culture that believes in Him better than they were before. It is God’s grace operating in that culture. Christianity doesn’t destroy the culture it is fused with. That’s why the Jews were distinguishable from the Greeks. The Greeks did not have to become Jews, and the Jews did not have to become Greeks. They simply had to love each other and respect their individuality. Men didn’t have to become Women, Women didn’t have to become Men, instead there was equality for all. Masters didn’t become slaves, Slaves didn’t become Masters, instead everyone was under God, and everyone around you was brethren.

    Christianity doesn’t “TAKE OVER” a nation. Christianity is a spirit of servanthood and it will make a nation BETTER.

    So is Christianity the reason why Rome was so violent? No, the heart of Rome was already violent, Rome acquired the benefits of Christianity without a change of mind (REPENTANCE). So Rome simply became better at being violent.

    I’m not talking about the Roman Christians, I’m talking about the Political Roman System. Systems are in need of repentance just like individuals.

    I personally believe that these are the Dominions and Powers and Angels that Paul always talked about. When Paul says “Do you not know that we will judge angels?” (1 Corinthians 6:3) I believe Paul was talking about powerful Systems Ideologies and Religious Movements, that manifest themselves within a group of people. the “Spirit” of the people. The Dreams of the people are carried along by angels until it manifests into reality.

    The Spirit of Antichrist is one such spirit that we must constantly deal with until we are transformed into our new bodies. The Spirit of Antichrist is our old bodies. (For those of you who can accept it…)

    Don’t you know that your Body is the Temple of God? (1 Corinthians 3:16) So if Christ is not sitting on the throne of your heart, then who is? This should change your ENTIRE perspective on 2 Thessalonians 2 from now on. Because Paul already knew the physical Jewish Temple was going to be destroyed, so what temple was he really talking about? your HEART!!!!

    So the battle didn’t end in 70 A.D. it only moved from the Physical Temple, to the Spiritual Temple, (Our Hearts..)

    Antichrist is not just in the Past, Antichrist is not just in the Future. Antichrist is a current within us that can only be destroyed by the Presence of Jesus Christ coming into our hearts.

    Yoga, meditation, mantras, acupuncture, magnets, astrology, new age thought, immoral lifestyles etc,will not save us from ourselves.

    As long as Jesus Christ is not the King of our heart, mind and souls, then the desire for an Alternative Christ (spirit of Antichrist) manifests throughout history. And will continue to manifest until the whole world is filled with the Love of God.

    Curious about America’s future or any nation’s future? All you have to ask yourselves is this: “Who is sitting in the heart of America? is it Christ or Antichrist?”

    If it’s Christ, expect Life. If it’s Antichrist expect destruction.

    This might be too “meaty” for some of you. I pray God opens your eyes…

  3. Arrow says:

    E,

    You say: “The “Almighty” Hand (or “fist”) that does the re-distributing of property, must have more force available to it than all of the other players. Otherwise, it is merely an instrument of war (which is all the raised fist, or “Almighty Re-distributive Hand” really is, anyway).”

    That is so true. And we live in a time when our civil government has been turned into that fist; we must disallow that by peaceful means before it is too late.

    • E Harris says:

      Yes. A civil sword is a fist raised against God and others, to the extent that it does not represent the equal application of principles to everyone within its borders, and is not trying to confiscate their property. (And in order to treat everyone within its borders fairly and equally… it must have borders. Otherwise, it is merely an institution that is trying to take over the world – because there are no geographical limits to its jurisdiction.) For all of its faults, the American government can be good – because it still is (somewhat) accountable to christians in the United States. I am a christian libertarian: but I still fear what may happen to us at the hands of those who were outsiders, when our guard drops. It’s not like “anti-imperialism” (anti-christianity, anti-American) sentiment is going to disappear, just because we have no centralized apparatus – or worse, it is turned against us (in cooperation with international forces).

      But there are a few ways this can go… and more than a few ways it can go south.

      1) American National Government turns into Worldwide Empire, due to human hubris centered in Washington DC. (Very unlikely. It would disintegrate before it got close. We even now see the re-surgence of nationalism, and religious motivations, at the expense of stable bureaucracy. The bureaucracy only got as large as it did, on the capital of leftist christians…who are beginning to lose cohesion.)

      2) The American National Gov’t stays were it is – doesn’t shrink a lot, but doesn’t grow very much either… allowing the economy and the resurgence of religions and nationalism to pick up the slack. There will continue to be wars, etc… but the American electorate will remain cohesive and so will it’s civil sword.

      3) The American Centralized Civil Sword falls apart, because the American public LOSES SOCIAL COHESION! Marxists have been (temporarily) successful in dividing rich against poor, black against white, foreigner against domestic, police against non-police. International forces come into America as “peacekeepers” and re-distribute the wealth and energy resources away from America and Americans. Our Centralized Civil Sword collapses (or becomes an international sham) BEFORE other Centralized bureaucrasies and militaries fail. This means they can come OVER HERE and pillage us. And they would attempt to rationalize this using marxist anti-imperialist logic.

      4) Americans experience a resurgence in nationalism (realizing that this always was OUR land). All backgrounds rally around Christian faith, the Bible, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. And the USA institution is allowed to persist, until that day comes when it can peacefully lay down it’s arms and its guard – in a future time when it is no longer necessary to protect our borders against “anti-imperialist” wannabes (who refuse to take responsibility for THEIR OWN LANDS).

      Just saying “dismantle” … seems to agree more with the Occupiers (truly, foreign occupation is their strategy and goal). The TEA Party reflected an instinct to preserve the good that is still useful within the Constitution. To keep a presidency, legislature, police, etc. But to not let it become overbearing. Until the time comes (if/when) when we no longer need a centralized civil sword, and we agree to dial it back. All of this pre-supposes a strongly unified-and-informed citizenry. Something we are not, at present.

      So this is the way I think it is likely to happen:
      1) The USA and Americans will come under increasing pressure from each other and from the outside. There may be an occupation, or an attempt at such. Uncle Sam will either side with the American people – or will side with internationalists against the idea of stable self-government.
      2) Americans will BEGIN (sooner or later) to wake up and realize that we are Americans because we live here, and we need to protect our lives and property. Americans will begin to rally and unify after a message of unity (or multiple messages of unity) are preached and taught. Jesus Christ is a big part of this.
      3) The renewed American Vision will have greater understanding and heart, for the mission of America as a people, and as an institution…but no longer will the people be viewed as the institution. They will have seperate purposes. America as a people will have the purpose of building civilization and witnessing for Jesus at home & overseas. The Corporate USA will have the mission of protecting American lives and property, while the American people bring a re-birth of peace and prosperity (in practice, and in renewed understanding) to the world. The corporate USA will not be seen as eternally indespensable: but only temporary. Until the American PEOPLE have accomplished their mission. And it will not be against any other nation-state. To the contrary, EVERY nation-state that has a sufficient number of christians inside of it should view itself this way. The nation-state will not view itself in competition with other nation states or any religion. It will only view itself as a protector against violence. Those in charge of the centralized bureaucrasies will understand (or be forced to understand) that it is the job of private citizens to spread commerce and prosperity, peace, truth in religion and science, to the world. And that the bureaucracy is only there for a limited time, for the purpose of protection – until protection is no longer needed.

  4. E Harris says:

    (It’s interesting how “Jesus was a commie” remark shows up on Matthew’s forehead, in the photograph… Yet another sign that the guy is depositing his chips – and his identity – with the wrong players.)

  5. BananaSplit38 says:

    Dear Arrow,

    Spot on. Anyone who does not agree with you or the brain washed robots who frequent this website are apparently “trolls”. Instead of offering an intelligent rebuttal to those who disagree with your ideology you dismiss them as “trolls” because you really can’t defend your so called beliefs with anything other than a bunch of canned bum wad, clap trap, hogwash and drivel fed to you by the puppet masters who run American Vision. Another tactic used by AV androids is to start insulting people who disagree with them after patronizing them fails to work. So ignore my remarks if you don’t like what I have to say.

  6. aCultureWarrior says:

    Gary DeMar writes:

    “Communism is forcing people to work for the goals of the State, and the State is a bunch of elites who claim they know what’s best for all of us. In the end, it’s these leaders who get the utopian spoils while the masses suffer.”

    I’ve never heard communism described that way before Gary. So if the State, which is one of 3 institutions ordained by God for the governance of man (the Church and family being the other two), and in His eyes is to to “do good”, follow’s it’s proper role of limited government and enforces Godly legislation, it would be “communist”?

    • Jose Sanchez says:

      According to Communism the State has UNLIMITED government. So what exactly are you trying to ask? The purpose of the State is to SERVE. Where have you seen that occur in a communist nation? When has the Leader given up everything he can to see his people prosper and at peace?? a Leader that serves is not a quality of Communism, no matter how many times people try to put Jesus into that mold.

      Jesus Christ is not a communist. First he didn’t tell his disciples to die for him, instead he died for his disciples. Tell me of a Communist Leader who has done this. Second, there was nothing Jesus disciples can do for him, instead Jesus was the one praying for them and washing their feet and liberating their souls with truth. Third, Jesus taught his disciples that whatever belonged to Caesar was Caesars and whatever belonged to God was God’s. Tell me about a Communist Leader who’s at the top of the chain that would do such a teaching.

      The lack of Biblical literacy in this world is disgusting. What bothers me is the animosity that is being built up against Christians. All because a bunch of ignorant Christians swallowed up the teachings of a possessed girl in the 1830′s and mixed it with communist thought.

      Church buildings and Christians giving their money to the church with the church pastors as their leader is MODERN. That’s a corrupt disgusting perverted Gospel that’s being preached. If you go into a neighborhood that has 5 church buildings along one block and the neighborhood is full of drugs and vandalized streets, and crime etc, then there is CORRUPT HERETICAL DOCTRINE being taught in those churches. Those churches have no LOVE for their STATE.

      Christianity makes ANY CULTURE better than it was before. Christianity is a catalyst for change and transformation to improve any culture that it touches. Christianity transcends cultures and teaches different cultures to work together. God doesn’t care if you’re black, or white, or brown, or yellow. God doesn’t care if you’re Asian, European, Hispanic, or American. What God cares about is Love. Because God is Love. Because God loves this world. He loves this world and expects to see it transformed with every second that they walk in that Love. And He will remain faithful to His Will. In the end God Wins.

      Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom
      Submission to God is the beginning of Freedom.

  7. BananaSplit38 says:

    Jesus is getting used a lot these days to support whatever crack brained political ideology is in vogue. I’m sure glad His Kingdom is not of this world as it is. Guess whose kingdom this world belongs to right now. Let me know when you have an answer. I’ll give you a hint. It begins with “S”.

    • Mark says:

      Scarface? Superman? Steve?

      I’m sure you didn’t mean Satan…..My bible says that he WAS thrown in the lake of fire back in AD70….we enjoy life with God now, not some future time. If you want an enemy to shadow box with, then look in the mirror. The battlefield is in our mind and how we take control of it and submit it to the will of the Father.

      There is no longer an accuser of the brethern.

      • BananaSplit38 says:

        Mark

        Thanks for the patronizing lecture. I can always count on these self-righteous little sermons from most of the people posting on this website. Thanks again, and especially for being consistent and predictable.

      • Arrow says:

        Mark,

        Mr. or Mrs. bananas is a troll, I suggest ignoring him or her, as was suggested to me.

      • Mark says:

        And I’m sure you are expecting the “god” of this world (which by the way, is now past tense) to come out with microchips, injectable capsules, 666, etc on the foreheads of unbelievers…….not gonna happen.

  8. BananaSplit38 says:

    That’s the answer folks. Jesus supports unrestricted capitalism.

  9. E Harris says:

    “There would not have been the ability to help their fellow Christians who were suffering from the effects of famine (Acts 11:28) if Communism was operating since there wouldn’t have been any money to give.”

    Very true. Money is useful, and helpful. But I think that where there are resources and labor that money can buy, money isn’t necessarily necessary or crucial. It’s only in most cases that it is: because fallen (or carnal) human beings do not function well without money as an external guage of value.

    Didn’t the Bible call money “unrighteous mammon”, and then ask us to be faithful with it? So even money, like politics, is a “lesser of two evils.” Money is necessary to keep the flesh accountable to things that are productive and valueable. It is a useful measuring tool, for the flesh and fleshly eyes to know what is most “valued” by other human beings at the moment.

    In other words, if the civil sword is a “big stick” then money is the “carrot.” In an article that I linked to below, these would be called “extrinsic motivators.” They are helpful in a highly LIMITED range of human behavior, and beyond that they become extremely detrimental to human progress. They may help us join into being productive, but once we are applied… and situations get more complex… intrinsic motivators are in fact more successful.

    Intrinsic motivators are
    1) Autonomy. People desire to make their own choices (even if in a limited range). They desire to feel independent.
    2) Mastery. People desire to be significant in some way, so that they can make a contribution. This desire drives them to specialize, and compete.
    3) Purpose. This is what draws people together in the end. People desire to be a part of something larger than themselves. They want to devote all of their autonomy and mastery to this “Higher Thing” whatever it is in the moment.

    People only experience these 3 things in limited doses (as God enables them). These three things are apects of God’s Absolute Being, that we are enabled (by His Sovereign Grace) to participate in.

    Grace empowers and motivates. God gives ALL power to make choices. That is how people can make a choice to lay down their weapons or their money, as they see the need. In fact, the Bible teaches that we all only choose God because He first chose us and empowered us to make the choice (but we still had to choose). It’s quite binary: say “yes” and you get to go to the next empowering choice, but say “no” and you are stuck with a hardened heart until God moves on you again (if HE chooses). (This is how I resolve the age-old Calvinist vs. Armenian paradox. We make the choice, AFTER having been empowered by God. ANY choice, is made by the power of God, Who sees beforehand what choice we will make. Therefore, occasionally, God even chooses not to empower, but to harden people’s hearts, who He knows will rebel anyway. Choice is intrinsic to how God governs creation through men. This is why Jesus died: because we cannot deal with all of the spiritual consequences of our bad choices, and still survive to experience overcoming grace.)

    http://theresurgence.com/2012/04/25/how-grace-motivates

    This article at this link (and the video of an economic speech it contains) explains how “utopian” views of brotherhood and working together, for reasons bigger than money, can and do occur. Obviously every serious christian knows this to be true. But once in a while, scientific measurements of market principles can & do indicate that there are motivators larger than the psychological humanistic motivators that are assumed (by evolutionists) to drive all of human behavior.

    Ultimately, the notions that we are discussing here, are what marxists are craving and looking for. They just don’t know the proper Doorway to enter into it. Pray to God that they get more hungry, and that God directs them to the right people… so that they can be saved. Because God desires ALL MEN to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth. But it is God who motivates and enables, by Grace, people to come to Him…and it is God who provides the proper witnesses and mentors (elders) for them.

    • E Harris says:

      In short, I’m developing a theory:

      Carnal, fallen, fleshly nature (that depend on sensory input for guaging everything they value): need carrots and sticks to motivate them or keep them in line. Money and swords. Incentive and fear.

      But spiritual beings are more directly responsive to God. Therefore their deepest needs (intrinsic motivators) find a home in intangible processes that originate in God, more Personally and directly. These intrinsic motivators such as autonomy, mastery, and purpose are from God, for God, and only realizable through God’s Grace extended to every man… but most perfectly (in its total perfection) extended through Jesus Christ at the cross. The only way we can be COMPLETELY set at east, and COMPLETELY at home, while still being functional and responsive… is to meet God through the processes that God created via the cross of Jesus Christ.

  10. E Harris says:

    An excellent critique of Marxism. This is all that it’s really going to politically come down to: debating biblical principles and biblical morality with these marxists. (Marxism, I think, may be humanisms’ last stand. If it cannot control christian speech in the name of seizing property, it has lost the battle for restricting the growth of christianity.)

    Communism claims to use the morality of the New Testament scriptures. That is where it gets its moral force. Since there is no God in marxism, it derives ALL of its authority from the social sphere of human beings. Most of us are christians, or would like to think of ourselves as agreeing with Jesus.

    In marxism, the ‘brotherhood of man/men” replaces God. Problem: the marxist idea of brotherhood is only possible through Christian philosophy, centered on Jesus. That’s where such a notion came from, in the first place. Hence: it always comes back to Jesus and the NT apostles. Jesus is at the center of the debate. Marxists just don’t like to acknowledge this. In the materialist 20th century, it was possible to dodge the debate about Jesus. Not so, in the 21st religion-driven century.

    The marxist’s false god is the raised fist. It comes from them, and it brings everything back to them (they think). The fist, raised in protest against authority, IS the image of their mob-like collective. It grabs ahold of the sword (any sword will do) and it takes and ‘re-distributes’ toward all those on the side of ‘marxism’.

    Most people seem to like the idea of social-justice fairness, on the surface. But the one thing that they ignore is the Hand that does the re-distributing. That’s the one thing marxists never want to talk about. The “Almighty” Hand (or “fist”) that does the re-distributing of property, must have more force available to it than all of the other players. Otherwise, it is merely an instrument of war (which is all the raised fist, or “Almighty Re-distributive Hand” really is, anyway). All such a collectivized, corporate, re-distributive hand can really accomplish: is to take, to smash, and to look pretty standing there. But in order for “brotherhood” to be realized (in a marxist material-equality sense) this “Almighty Raised Hand” that has no competition, must lay down its “power” (force) voluntarily, like Jesus Christ, for the sake of the brethren. This it will never do. Because fallen human beings are not driven by holy instinct. This is where marxism consistently fails, every time. This “Hand” will never give up it’s pretend authority, vested in it by it’s “brethren”. This marxist Hand is preciselly why no marxist revolution has ever succeeded without violence, or ever succeeded after all the violence.

    But Jesus came so that we may realize our brotherhood is possible in God, from a deeper and intangible place. The news of the kingdom brings us peace and hope that cannot be measured.

    • Arrow says:

      E,

      May I suggest familiarizing yourself with the wonderful theories and the truths that they point to before trying to develop new ones. We can learn a lot from the accumulated knowledge of those who have gone before us.

      God loves money. He demands that it be protected by just weights and measures. Money makes possible the division of labor, without which we would not be well off.

      Imputed value (the value that we “impute” to a given item or service) is the engine that drives economics, I think. Economics and money are not inherently “non-spiritual”. They are very real and therefore a legitimate part of God’s kingdom.

      Even our redemption (get it…”redemption”?) is an economic transaction where God places value on man’s soul and “imputes” the righteousness of Christ in exchange for our sin.

      This is a rough sketch as I am not up on all the exact concepts.

      • E Harris says:

        I concur. Just weights and measures are good. They are just. But they are just, in the same way that the civil sword is ‘just’ but yet it cannot PRODUCE anything good. It is more like a necessary evil, to aid those who are not inclined toward obedience and clarity in their spiritual lives. (Which is all of us, to an extent.)

        This isn’t about “inventing” ‘new’ truths. This is about explaining and articulating and ‘unpacking’ what is already implied in the pages of Scripture. Part of the reason marxism persists – is that we (I mean WE) have not done a better job explaining spiritual things in a down-to-earth manner that is accessible to those with other concerns.

        I know that redemption and saving (or being lost) are economic terms. I look forward to knowing more about the deep truths of salvation, and how it relates to the economy. I look forward to learning these things from God’s perspective. I look forward to being able to explain it in such a way that makes sense out of the connection between Spirit and progress in the physical economy.

        Civilization will not progress, unless we do. Those who are guided by the Spirit must lead the way.

        (I can always count on you, Arrow, to help me unpack my statements.)

      • E Harris says:

        It’s good to hold to the truths that we have learned. But we need to keep learning more, and articulating more. Conservatives have lost a lot, because they have a mostly conservative (defensive) posture.

        Why are those who call themselves Postmillenialists stuck with defending the treatises and knowledge that we solidly arrived at (economically) around the 1950′s or so? Why not progress? Keeping what we have, we can also move forward. This will also make it easier to overlook our divisions (in the Body of Christ) when we look at more, in the context of future.

        Many of those outside of the Reconstructionist camp are learning about Preterism, Postmillenialism, Sovereignty, etc… and are carrying it into new frontiers. Why don’t they just become Preterists and be done with it? Because… it’s not even about Preterism vs. Futurism, or Calvinist vs Armenian, or Presbyterian vs. Pentecostal, or whatever. It’s about GROWING into a MATURE MAN, our Head, Jesus Christ. That means (for us little people) we need, want, and should seek after MORE.

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