Apologetics EndIsNearcliamte-change

Published on May 23rd, 2011 | by Gary DeMar

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Why Modern-Day Prophecy Theorists are More Dangerous than Harold Camping

How is it possible that most evangelical critics of Harold Camping are more dangerous than the failed prognosticator? For the simple reason that it’s no longer May 21, 2011, and Harold Camping will be relegated to the dust bin of prophetic history, but prophecy prognosticators will continue to abound by claiming that Jesus is still coming “soon” even if we don’t know the “day and hour.” In nearly every article I’ve read by evangelicals denouncing Camping, they still claim that all the signs are in place for Jesus’ “soon” return. Here are some examples:

  • Even though Tim LaHaye denounced Camping’s prediction as “not only wrong but dangerous . . . not only bizarre but 100% wrong!,” he still claims “that the recent earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan are signs of the apocalypse just as he laid out in” in his fiction end-time Left Behind novels.(1)
  • “Also joining the debate, Cal Thomas took on Camping in his recent column, saying the prophesized events of Matthew 24 haven’t been completely fulfilled yet.”(2)
  • Jim Dixon, senior pastor of Cherry Hills Community Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado, made these comments in an interview with ChristianPost.com: “I’m not actually saying we are in the end times. I’m saying I believe it is likely that we are in the end times. I think it is important for every generation to study eschatology, to study the events that are prophesized. I think Christ wants his people to be aware of the time and season of his coming. I think he wants us to be excited to live in the hope of his promises. So you know, I’m not saying we are the last generation. I think I would be surprised if Christ doesn’t come back soon. By that I mean perhaps in my lifetime, perhaps in my children’s lifetime, and certainly in my grandchildren’s lifetime. But of course we don’t know the day or the hour. And I’m not trying to set the day or the hour, but I’m just saying there are many signs that we are in the season of his return.” (3)
  • “The world isn’t quite yet at the seven-year Tribulation Period that the Bible prophesizes, [Greg] Laurie said, but he believes its close. ‘That means the return of Jesus Christ is even closer yet,’ he said. There may be some disagreements over the order of the prophetic events, he noted. But there is no division on ‘this one truth: that Jesus Christ is coming back again soon.’ ‘I’m not one of those date setters,’ the famed evangelist said. ‘Some looney tune will come along and say he’s cracked the code. No man knows the day or the hour.’ But what people can know are the ‘signs of the times,’ a phrase Jesus coined, according to Laurie. What are these signs? ‘We see them on the headlines of newspapers,’ he said. Earthquakes are just one of many signs. . . . While disasters are one obvious sign, Laurie believes one of the most significant signs indicating the Lord’s return in this generation is the 1948 return of the Jewish people to their homeland.” (Audrey Barrick, “Calif. Pastor: End of the World Is Near, Really,” ChristianPost.com (March 14, 2011).

There are many more examples I could cite. They all have one thing in common: While Camping was wrong to set an exact date, it’s OK to claim that certain signs are demonstrable evidence that Jesus is coming “soon.” In almost every case, they appeal to Jesus’ prophecy in the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24; Mark 13; Luke 21) and words like “soon” and “near.” The only person who came close to dealing with the issue was R.C. Sproul.(4) His book The Last Days According to Jesus is a helpful antidote to the madness. Of course, I’ve covered the same ground in my books Last Days Madness, Is Jesus Coming Soon?, and 10 Popular Prophecy Myths Exposed and Answered.

Last Days Madness

Most evangelical news sites and radio programs do not want to hear an alternative view that calls into question the incessant harping on last days’ hysteria. Too many radio stations and publishing houses make their money off end-time broadcasts and books. As it is, these guys will continue to get people worked over the claim that the end is near and Jesus’ is coming soon and sell more books. Camping will be denounced as a charlatan and a kook, but little will change in the way prophecy is taught and publishing companies promote it.

Let’s be clear. An appeal to Matthew 24, with its talk about earthquakes, famines, false christs, great tribulation, and the worldwide proclamation of the gospel has nothing to do with our time. Jesus did not prophesy about a far in the future “last days.” He was very specific in identifying His audience as the “generation” (Matt. 24:34) that would see and experience “these things” (24:33).

The New Testament is filled with exhortations that a near eschatological event was on the horizon for those living at that time. Here are some examples:

  • “The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light” (Romans 13:12)
  • “But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none” (1 Corinthians 7:29).
  • “Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come” (1 Corinthians 10:11).
  • “Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.” (Philippians 4:5).(5)
  • “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world” (Hebrews 1:2).
  • “[Jesus] would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” (Heb. 9:26).
  • “[Let us not forsake] our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near” (Hebrews 10:25).
  • “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay” (Hebrews 10:37).
  • “Your gold and your silver have rusted; and their rust will be a witness against you and will consume your flesh like fire. It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure! (James 5:3).
  • “Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door” (James 5:7–9).(6)
  • “The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer” (I Peter 4:7).
  • “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (1 John 2:18).
  • “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John” (Rev. 1:1).
  • “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.” (Rev. 1:3).
  • “I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.” (Rev. 3:11).
  • “And [the angel] said to [John], ‘These words are faithful and true’; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place” (Rev. 22:6).
  • “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.” (Rev. 22:7).
  • “And [the angel] said to [John], ‘Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.’” (Rev. 22:10).
  • “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.” (Rev. 22:12).
  • “He who testifies to these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.” (Rev. 22:20).

Is Jesus Coming Soon?

It is impossible to turn the above time indicators into an “any-moment rapture” or prolonged periods of prophetic history.

The Camping fiasco would have been a great time to wipe the slate clean of all prophetic speculation, from Hal Lindsey’s Late Great Planet Earth (1970) that predicted Jesus would “rapture” the church before 1988 to Mark Hitchcock’s The Late Great United States (2009), while not setting a particular date, still argues that all the signs are in place for the nearness of the “rapture.”

Not only was the Camping story hammered in Christian media outlets but the secular media had a field day with it. Too bad popular representatives of the church missed another opportunity to set them straight. But they couldn’t. The majority of evangelicals are bound to an unstudied futurism that they parrot because this is what they’ve always been taught and they would lose their jobs if they taught anything different.

If you are looking for a vaccine to inoculate you against the next wave of prophetic speculation, why not attend American Vision’s National Prophecy Conference June 1–4, 2011 at the beautiful Ridgecrest Conference Center in Asheville, North Carolina. Bring a friend. Bring your pastor.Endnotes:

  1. Ariel R. Ray, “‘Left Behind’ Author: May 21 Rapture is ‘Flat Out Wrong,’” ChristianPost.com (May 19, 2011).()
  2. Lee Warren, “Christian Leaders Respond to Camping’s May 21 Rapture Prediction,” ChristianPost.com (May 17, 2011).()
  3. Michelle A. Vu, “Interview: Pastor Jim Dixon on End Times Prophecy Controversy,” ChristianPost.com (April 10, 2011).()
  4. Audrey Barrick, “Theologian Clarifies Rapture, Last Days Beliefs,” ChristianPost.com (May 22, 2011).()
  5. This passage may be saying that “the Lord is near” in terms of His relationship to Christians. If this is its meaning, then it shows that the word “near” or “at hand” means proximity. And if it means proximity here, then it means proximity or closeness in other contexts. See Rev. 1:3; 22:10()
  6. “Near” is defined as “standing right at the door” not in the next state.()
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About the Author

Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. He is the author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles, His most recent book is Exposing the Real Last Days Scoffers. Gary lives in Marietta, Georgia, with his wife, Carol. They have two married sons and four grandchildren, Gary and Carol are members of Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA).



28 Responses to Why Modern-Day Prophecy Theorists are More Dangerous than Harold Camping

  1. Billi Huyard says:

    HaHa Twitter ought to be outranking other social media websites

  2. Nelson Swiger Jr. says:

    Mr. DeMar

    Reading your article does not sound like the words of a Christian. I really do not see anywhere in scripture where we are told to make derogatory comments about those fellow Christians we may disagree with. To even go as far as have a cruise to attack fellow believers is unbecoming of a Christian. There are many issues I do not agree with other believers over, but I respect their position as long as they have put their faith in Christ and are sound in their faith. I follow R. C. Sproul and he is a partial preterist and yet I follow many of his teachings sound and have learned much from him. He and I may differ on eschatology, but we hold the same view on the essentials and this makes him and I brothers in Christ.

    You made the statement that those of us that believe in an imminent Rapture just parrot what we have been taught, how arrogant of you. I have studied and came to my beliefs do to much prayer and study. Maybe you are the one that just parrots what he has been taught. To call a fellow believer dangerous for their belief is unbiblical and I hope you search your heart and pray for God to show you that your sir are in sin. I am asking you to repent. You can teach what you want, but you can do it in Christian love. Your attacks are no better than those that come from the heathen.

  3. Matt Sullivan says:

    For that matter, there is no rapture.

    The rapture is a false.

    Camping’s Genesis 7:4 ignores 7:10 in fulfilling verse 4.

  4. Matt Sullivan says:

    Jesus did not say that he is coming back to the earth.

    He told his disciples that he is coming to them, by resurrecting them to life with him.

    But Jesus is not coming back to the earth.

    No reason for that.

  5. dococ says:

    I didn’t even hear about Camping’s date setting until May and it was on Natl Public Radio. None of my Christian friends (or lists) even mentioned it.

  6. George says:

    What I’d like to know (re: DeMar’s article above) how to look at these modern day very popular rapture promotors? Are they saved Christians yet decieved? Are they false Chrstians? Take Hal Lindsey for example: I’ve heard his preaching on NON-prophetic issues, on how he came to believe in Christ, his teachings on various themes in the Christian life, on walking in the spirit etc. From his words and teachings in the NON-prophetic sermons he seems like a decent teacher. But from his prophetic teachings he has wrought much destruction, much misery in the lives of Christians. I remember when he visited a friends church and I visited to hear him as a young student thinking “wow if this is all true, then I’ll never have the chance to get married and have a wife or any of that stuff”. His teachings brought both excitement and despair to my mind. My question to DeMar is : how should one treat these people? These famous preachers? As true chrisitans, false christians, somewhere inbetween? Its as if they are both for and against the Christian.

  7. Harmon Gottlieb says:

    Gary’s listing of ‘time-indicator’ exhortations indicating “a near eschatological event was on the horizon for those living at that time,” doesn’t bother to name the event, or it’s degree of eschatological finality.
    His compendium, moreover, cites “last days [eschatos hemera]” in Hebrews 1:2 and James 5:3, but omits 2 Timothy 3:1-5:

    “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away,”

    and 2 Peter 3: 3-8:

    “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

    Date-setting the Apocalypse and Camping’s farcical show-boating is what heretical eschatology does. However, it also sees the second coming as a follow-up to a reconstructionist, global, Christian revivification of all human institutions, and, therefore, downgrades/ignores the ever-increasing, apocalyptic, depravity prophesied for “the last days.”

  8. Mona says:

    Just wondering how many $99 dollar bills you’ll rake in at your conference at Ridgecrest. Of course,
    there’s the sale of books too. Non-profit? I don’t think so.

    Jude is an interesting read. Especially if one believes the full counsel of God and I do. Believe I’ll study through these scorching verses again….right away!

  9. seal says:

    http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10670861

    I made a song for Harold Camping and his followers…. Take a listen….

  10. Jeff S says:

    What a shame, think of all the family members of these followers who have been adversely effected by their decision to go down this road, especially their kids. I have seen it up close everyone is sacrificed in their quest, but the kids are what is really sad and what was gained. If the people leading them are doing it for gain, they would be worse than Madoff, and they do exist.

  11. Adam says:

    I just wanted to comment that these hyperpreterists seem to be misrepresenting the issue. The issue with hyperpreterism is a *hermeneutical* issue, not an exegetical issue. The whole issue is how we *do* exegesis. As myself, Dr. Kenneth Talbot, Dee Dee Warren, and others who have dealt with this issue have pointed out, if you have a faulty exegetical methodology, you will always come to the wrong conclusions.

    In fact, I would say that Hyperpreterism’s hermeneutic is as bad as Harold Camping. When you have to draw parallels just because of minor similarities between texts while ignoring all of the differences, engage in the “one meaning” fallacy with words such as “coming,” grossly reduce the eschaton down to “prediction-fulfillment,” and a whole host of other reductionisms, you are going to come to the wrong conclusions.

    Be careful to not confuse reductionism with consistency. Often times people who think they are being consistent are simply being reductionistic. Language is a complex phenomenon, and you can get an entire degree in the subject of linguistics. The possibility of reductionism is very real.

    • Micah Martin says:

      Adam,

      Feel free to join the challenge. Please present anything Gary has written exegeting a yet future 3rd coming. As far as the partial preterist world goes, I hope I don’t have to tell you how inconsistent it is. Just about every partial preterist disagrees with other partial preterists as to what is still yet unfulfilled. If you take all of the partial preterist arguments together and agree, you will be labeled a “hyper-preterist”. To be orthodox you can agree with any few partial preterist just not all of them at the same time. Go figure. (Most Partial Preterist disagree with themselves after about 10 or so years, just look at how Daniel 12 was treated in the 80′s and 90′s.!)

      Even Kenneth Gentry and Gary DeMar disagree on 2 Peter! (I had heard there was going to a debate on this but I guess not.) Yet they are speaking at the conference together. Show me a passage that is yet unfulfilled and I will show you a partial preterist who has it fulfilled. Gary North is on record as saying that anyone who has the parable of the wheat and the tares fulfilled is a heretic and lo and behold, Joel McDurmon has that fulfilled.

      No sir, there is nothing consistent about Partial Preterism, until their glass gets full. I take that back, partial preterist agree that as long as you have one or two verses as yet unfulfilled you are “orthodox” and not “hyper”. Who cares if everyone has a different verse or two (or creed) just as long as you have your “passport”.

      • Adam says:

        Micah, hyperpreterism is a mess of people who disagree with one another. You have the Covenant Creationists, the Sovereign Grace Preterism folks, the emergent folks such as Virgil Vaduva, etc. In fact, people such as Virgil Vaduva have admitted that hyperpreterism changes everything. That is why he has tried to mix the emergent church and hyperpreterism because he recognizes what happens when you reject the physical second coming of Christ. Hyperpreterism is very difficult to keep consistent, because it is based upon a very reductionistic hermeneutic.

        Also, some of the arguments from hyperpreterists no one accepts. No one accepts the idea that Romans 8 and Matthew 24 are talking about the same event. No one agrees with the idea that the present tense in 1 Corinthians 15 means anything in regards to the timing of 1 Corinthians 15 as the syntax of the present tense is far more complicated [Daniel B. Wallace's chapter in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics for a huge list of syntactical categories of the present tense].

        Also, even on the issues which you agree with partial preterists, you don’t agree with them for the right reasons. You have this idea that you can simply take what is done to passages like Matthew 24, and apply it to the whole Bible. That is not consistency; it is reductionism. Language is infinitely more complex than that. There are other factors on the micro level that affect meaning, and will affect whether such a manuver is legitimate or not.

        Also, I have not mentioned creeds at all. The problem with hyperpreterists is their hermeneutic. You have addressed *none* of the hermeneutical issues I raised, and, therefore, I can only conclude that you don’t want to deal with the hermeneutical issues. However, that is exactly the problem. If you apply your hermeneutic to any other book of human language, it will result in utter chaos. The only way you can claim that there is no “exegetical basis” for a physical second coming of Christ is if you presuppose a particular exegetical methodlogy which is grossly reductionistic.

        • Micah Martin says:

          Adam,

          Yes, preterism changes everything. It’s funny that you would reject it because of that fact. You must not be Reformed? And since when has the church believed one thing about Genesis. (Yes I am a Covenant Creationist). All of your arguments could be used against your own paradigm.

          Sam Frost has done a marvelous job of pointing out the issues in 1 Cor. 15. And yes, there are scholars that are at a loss to explain the “present tense” Paul uses. I would refer you to Sam Frost “Essays on the Resurrection” to educate yourself.

          Speaking of 1 Cor. 15. It is the futurist that divorce that passage from Hosea where Paul quotes from. There is no physical death in Hosea 13, therefore there is no physical death in 1 Cor. 15. Besides Hosea 13 is part of the OC world, which Gary has passing away in AD 70, so how could Paul be using part of the OC world to teach about the end of the New Covenant?

          I can give you plenty of books on the FP paradigm from Genesis to Revelation. You can’t give me one book or article from Gary exegeting the end of the world. The other PP that try to exegete it disagree with Gary and each other depending on what passages they use! It’s time to get honest and quit using arguments that destroy your own position.

          Please accept my challenge. In the meantime, while your searching you can answer this question for me:
          Is your Resurrection hope based on God’s promises to Old Testament Israel?

          Happy Hunting,
          Micah

  12. Alex Alexander says:

    Thanks Gary,
    What a blast!
    “Bring a friend. Bring your pastor”…. to the “beautiful Ridgecrest Conference Center”.
    I love your sense of humour! And your marketing chutzpah!
    But, as I’m sure you would agree, it’s actually no laughing matter.
    Unfortunately, there are so/too many Christians who are bought-into the Harold Camping mindset.
    And it’s like stepping onto the third rail, trying to get them to “think different”…
    I blame the shepherds.
    Where are the good ones?
    I wish I knew a few more…
    Alex A
    UK

  13. Ryan says:

    Another Amill perspective? Seriously, I’m glad I subscribe to walking in the steps of Christ and he will return when He suppose to… When that happens… Because I continue to live as He commanded… I will be apart of whatever His plan is…. And if I shed this skin suit prior? So be it… All this I gotta figure it out? And my way is the right way stuff just causes more division in the church… Let Go and Let GOD fellas! Much Love… We get it! Multiple opinions! It doesn’t matter… Love the brethren… You will be just fine… So will they.

    • Dan says:

      What Amill perspective?

      Different opinions do not matter? Just love the brethren and you will be just fine? So will they? What do you mean by “love”? “Brethren”? “just fine”?

      Of course opinions matter, and theology matters. Your statement only begins to make any sense if someone shares your opinion, shares your definitions. You (and many others) seem to think that debating and discussing differing opinions means not loving the brethren. Gary has noted many times that he considers most of the people he contends with to be friends. I have debates with plenty of other folks I consider brothers and sisters in Christ. There is nothing wrong with that, and frankly, it can be far more edifying than a debate between a theist and an atheist.

      The entire foundation of love as it is stated in the two great commandments revolves around 1) knowing, meditating on, teaching and obeying God’s law (Deut 6) and 2) loving your neighbor enough to have patience with them when break God’s law (don’t hold a grudge or seek vengeance) and “reason frankly with your neighbor lest you incur sin because of them.” (Lev. 19.17-18). It has nothing to do just just being cool, taking it easy, and lovin’ the brethren as many people seem to prescribe. It has to do with obedience to God, and how to interact with those who do not obey Him.

      • Nelson Swiger Jr. says:

        “Gary has noted many times that he considers most of the people he contends with to be friends.”

        Gary calls those of us that believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture dangerous, how is that being a friend? He bashes those he does not agree with and that is not Christian.

  14. Denise Winters says:

    Heb: 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
    Rev.: 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. He will come as a thief in the night and catch away his Bride (those that have been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ) Those that have made Jesus their Lord, Savior and Redeemer.

  15. Micah Martin says:

    DouglassMc,

    Feel free to join my challenge to anyone to provide any articles or books where Gary attempts to disprove the Full-preterist paradigm using Scriptural exegeses. I made that challenge over a month ago and so far no one has responded. There is a reason Gary won’t exegete a yet future 3rd coming. All of the passages most futurist use he has fulfilled at AD70.

    I also find it interesting that Gary has finally thrown in the “they don’t want to lose their jobs” charge. (You make the same claim in your post.) This is especially ironic because no doubt the loss of support American Vision would experience has to be considered when thinking about taking their partial-preterism to it’s logical, Scriptural and hermeneutical conclusion. How much does this question influence Gary and Joel to stay in the PP camp? I don’t know and I don’t really care. Their conscience towards the truth is none of my business. However, other FP have made that charge in the past and are castigated for it. Now Gary makes the same claim towards the futurist?

    Please feel free to accept my challenge. I also won’t be surprised when the REASON why Gary and others still believe in a yet future coming of Christ is not discussed at the upcoming Prophecy conference. Gary has already turned down an opportunity to debate a FP at the conference and I am sure he won’t offer any real alternative to the “we really can’t know” nonsense that the wider Christian world is preaching.

    You can’t replace something with nothing, but sometimes it is just easier that way.

    • Dale says:

      Amen Micah. It is mind-boggling to see how right on Gary and Joel can be with most scriptures related to eschatology, yet can’t quite take that final step to believe it all. It seems so clear to me that Jesus either accomplished everything He said He would, or He flat out failed! Partial Preterism is nothing more than watered down Futurism since they agree with them that there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled. I understand why some of these “leaders” hesitate to embrace the Full Preterist position as it would probably hinder or end their ministry, and cause them to look for something else to do. But when has that ever been something we should concern ourselves with as followers of Christ? I know many ex-pastors who had to leave their churches for embracing Full Preterism, and I don’t think any of them would have done it differently. They understand how serious it is teach the entire truth of God’s Word, and couldn’t continue teaching half-truths tot heir flocks. One friend of mine said he asked a well-known Partial Preterist teacher why he wouldn’t come all of the way over to Full Preterism and his answer was chilling. He said that he couldn’t because he had to provide for his family. I encourage Gary, Joel, and any other Partial Preterist to consider coming all of the way to the fulfilled eschatology position as did the apostles. Paul understood completely what Jesus had said as it is apparent in all of his writings.

      • Micah Martin says:

        Dale,

        I couldn’t agree more. Honestly I do feel very empathetic for anyone faced with making tough decisions that will affect their livelihood. That is why I have always refrained from bringing in the “job security” argument and why I was surprised that Gary would level that charge. Up until this article, I have never seem him go that direction.

        I know a lot of FP have level that charge against the PP world. Is it warranted? I won’t go there. The human element is not an easy thing to work through. I personally wouldn’t want to make a decision that would cost me my job. Would I for what I believe? I honestly don’t know. I hope so. Leaving or getting kicked out of a church is one thing but losing your job is another and I don’t think any of us should level that charge lightly, if at all.

        The problem I see is that Gary and Joel won’t go anywhere because their arguments are trying to replace something with nothing. Even the back cover of “The Day and the Hour” by Francis Gumerlock (the book AV advertised in the midst of the HC debacle) “encourages an approach of ‘cautious ignorance’ concerning the date of the final coming of Christ and related events, and magnifies the truth of Christ’s words that the day and the hour is indeed unknown”. (quoted from Matt. 24 which Gary has totally fulfilled interestingly enough) The final “5 things every Christian believes about the end of the world” concludes by citing the Nicene Creed. So much for sola Scriptura.

        “Cautious Ignorance” is not going to replace “Last Days Madness”.

      • Stephen Patrick says:

        How true Dale. My nephew is a pastor with the Christian & Missionary Alliance. Right now he is a PP. He won’t even consider that the resurrection is over, so FP is out for him. But, he can’t let his PP views be known otherwise he would be out of a job. His words, not mine.

  16. Debra Carey says:

    We have lost the ability to discern truth from error. It’s all relative to us, how does it fit in with what we think we already know?

    We can laugh it off when a delusional man does something like this, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that someday the LORD will return. The world as we know it will end. We will stand before the judgment seat of God our Creator.

    We have had several near misses from asteroids in the last few years. Did you know that?

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/07/close-call-asteroid-near-miss-for-earth-yesterday/

    We are very arrogant to think we will escape destruction just because it hasn’t happened in our short life spans.

    Iran, N. Korea, Venezuala are all making sure they too have the capacity to nuke mankind into eternity as well.
    Israel will not back down and give in, neither will Hamas or the PLO OR our President.
    The fact is that these last two generations are the ONLY ones ever to live that have seen the things we are seeing. Man’s ability to destroy the entire human civilization on earth, and Jews regaining of the land of Israel. Jesus said; that generation will not pass till all these things be fulfilled.

    So, go ahead and laugh and make fun of this poor man. Because if you take comfort in the thought that life will always go on as it is right now, you are just as delusional as he is.

  17. Michael Earl Riemer says:

    Brother DeMar,

    Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, and Amen. As you said, its too bad that the slate could not be cleaned. For the same problem (a worse problem) is still with us, the false witness of so many, of a “soon” coming.

    My pastor asked me to teach our adult Sunday school class over a year ago. He liked my teaching, so he asked me to teach another Sunday school class, once a month, in another church he runs. I have been teaching on this subject, the “end times” for a few months now. Our pastor, and others are starting to see the light. Praise the LORD!!!! I totally agree with your article, in fact, all those verses that you quoted, (plus a bunch more, total of 71 verses) were in my lesson notes (for May 22, 2011) that I gave to my pastor.

    Thanks for putting your articles (and the other writers articles) on the internet, they hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am retired and living in the Philippines (on a very small pension) with my wife and four year old son. Pray that I can start a fire here!!!!

    Victory in Christ Jesus our Lord,

    Michael Earl Riemer.

  18. Chris Greenwood says:

    Dispensationalist tolerate the pesecution of Palestinian Arabs because they claim that Jews are chosen people and can do no wrong, many of those people being persecuted are fellow believers, so not only are murders they have also betrayed fellow believers

  19. Christopher says:

    We must take care that we not lump all of the various American denominations into one bulk. There is no evidence that the Lutheran, Roman Catholic, or any other liturgical church fell into this trap. The fact is we have never taught this. We will never teach this. We teach very plainly that there is nothing to prevent the Lord from return in five minutes or five thousand years. There are no prophecies that truly have need to be fulfilled before the end comes. When the end does come, it will be a singular event, not a sudden disappearance of the Christian believers followed by seven years of tribulation and a final return of Christ Jesus. There is no second chance when the Lord comes. Nowhere in scripture does Jesus promise to save his followers from tribulation and trouble, we are told to endure.

    It saddens me to think that so many claim to be “Christians” and yet their faith is based more upon a doctrine of escapism than what Christ Jesus has done to save us from our sins.

    • Debra Carey says:

      It saddens me to see that you would call those who do believe in a pre trib rapture NON Christians.

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