Romans 13 talks about rulers or governments “praising the good”, but what does this entail? Is this a biblical support for government welfare? If it is, where do we draw the line? How much socialism is biblical?
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Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. Author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles, he also hosts The Gary DeMar Show, and History Unwrapped—both broadcasted and podcasted. Gary has lived in the Atlanta area since 1979 with his wife, Carol. They have two married sons and are enjoying being grandparents to their grandsons, Calvin and Paul. Gary and Carol are members of Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA).
I was disappointed that the specific issue of fraudulent scales and measures and false money is herein turned into a foundation for other things. I found this confused for the arguement they were trying to disclose. I think they should use other parts of the Bible to defend this arguement of theirs.
Also I have recently found that it is difficult for me to understand what the Judgement of Nations will be that does not take care of its citizens. I thought a better appproach would be to decide what kind of a Nation do we wished to be judged as. I think the bear each one his own load and help others with their burdens is a better place to start. Rulers are to be judged for the care of thier people also.
Oh I truly liked the short sentence that Ruth sent for all to meditate on, and fewer words hath she spoken that will be long remebered, such insight I can truly appreciate. Thank you for the words that were put together for fools to read and begin to educate there selves. Frank
Obama’s socialism reminds me of one thing…Mohammed was a socialist..He robbed the rich and redistributed it among his band of theves..Exactly what Obama plans…
It’s time to release ourselves from the arrogant hold of the moneychangers. To do that we must cease to use interest-bearing money as a medium of exchange, and engage in the exchange of goods and services, and the exercise of our individual ingenuity, out of gratitude to our Creator for life with meaning; coming into Union with our Source. Which includes with each other, as the sparks of the Divine that we are – “spiritual beings having a human experience”.
We can come to that Unity now, and leave behind the self-interested training wheels of interest-bearing money and fractional-reserve banking, because we have attained to the level of technology that can provide sufficient for all, and just requires us to raise our consciousness to the level OF Unity. Our goal, then, should be to decouple access from a money system, and just work with a credit system. And continue to hand over menial jobs to our technological servants; and get back into harmony with our environment.
No socialism. No communism. No fascism. No capitalism. No ism. Just Love.
It’s time.
MATTHEW 5-7 (Jesus’ “Sermon On The Mount”)
5:39 But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall
smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
5:40 And if any man will sue you at the law, and take away your coat,
let him have your cloak also.
5:41 And whosoever shall compel you to go a mile, go with him two.
5:42 Give to him that asks you, and from him that would borrow of you
turn you not away.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use
you, and persecute you;
Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, “Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.”
But Abraham said, “Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.”
Luke 16:19–31
I just don’t think that Jesus ment for us to be a door mat for everyone to treat us that way.
Someone slaps me he better know how to fight.
Where in the new testement is there justification for what you say?
The Garys on this film brought up a good point concerning diverse weights and measures, and how that looks in the eyes of God.
NOW, how would you like to know God’s opinion of what the threshold of SLAVERY is?
The answer gives understanding of several other issues, for instance, why does God take a tithe?
What IS that which should be rendered unto God and that rendered unto Caesar?
What IS the responsibility of the people, the soldier, the taxman?
God actually HAS a definition of slavery, one definition is that self slavery of debtors to those who have loaned them money, but God has another definition in reference to Civil government and it is found in the VERY WORDS of our God, Himself.
1 Samuel 8:10, 15-17(KJV)
10And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king….
15And he will take the TENTH of your SEED, and of your VINEYARDS, and give to his officers, and to his servants. [THIS IS THE FARMER]
16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. [THE KING WILL TAKE GOOD MEN OUT OF PRODUCTIVE LABOR WHICH CREATES WEALTH TO THAT WORK WHICH IS A DRAG ON THE ECONOMY]
17He will take the TENTH of your sheep: and YE SHALL BE HIS SERVANTS [Might as well call them SLAVES].
Now you know why God “accepts” a tithe. It is the amount that indicates that we are SERVANTS to God, and since the TITHE is NOT demanded in Christianity (you find me the NEW TESTAMENT word for Tithe and I will grant it), it IS, as was in the case of Abraham and Jacob, a voluntary admission to God that we are servants or slaves to God.
So What is to be rendered unto Caesar? For Americans and their complicated order of governments, the tax liability of the combined FEDERAL, STATE, and LOCAL governments CANNOT exceed 9.99% of whatever could be called the increase of the people.
Why NOT accept a larger amount, even ten percent or larger?
Well the Christian has a peculiar property, and it is actually ENCODED in our Constitution and mentioned in our Declaration of Independence.
We CANNOT be servants to the government. The people are FREE. They have been made free throughout their history in America and even deep within their existence in history with England. Not counting those of other countries who are made free when they become American citizens, the negro was made free at the awful expense in blood by white men fighting alongside some black brethren. So it is safe to say that ALL Americans are FREE, having been MADE FREE sometime in the past. But the Bible puts a very great burden on FREE Americans, but let me not hold you in suspense and I will get to the point by quoting the following passage from Paul…you know the one who wrote Romans 13:
1 Corinthians 7:20-24(KJV)
20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. [PAUL SAYS THIS ONCE]
21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: BUT IF THOU MAYEST BE MADE FREE, USE IT RATHER.
22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also HE THAT IS CALLED, BEING FREE, IS CHRIST’S SERVANT.
23Ye are bought with a price; BE NOT YE THE SERVANTS OF MEN. [THE CHRISTIAN CHARGE]
24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. [PAUL SAYS THIS TWICE]
The importance and gravity of that charge, BE NOT YE THE SERVANTS OF MEN, is compounded by the bracketing of Paul of his comments by the statement LET EVERY MAN ABIDE IN THE SAME CALLING WHEREIN HE WAS CALLED repeated TWICE. According to the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter, this twice repeated statement means that it is sure and more solid than the Law of the Medes and Persians which changeth not.
If Americans were citizens from the start under slavery, I would be admonishing HOW we are to conduct ourselves as slaves as even Joseph conducted himself under slavery, for we have good instructions on how to be the BEST slaves on earth. In that, ironically concerning the law of multiple witnesses given by Moses and repeated in the mouth of Jesus himself, Joseph gives the basis for the law in this statement concerning the doubled dream of Pharaoh, differing in some detail but with the same focus:
Genesis 41:32(KJV)
32And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.
Also within this double bracketed instruction by Paul concerning slavery and freedom, Paul gives this other commandment, IF THOU MAYEST BE MADE FREE, USE IT RATHER.
What does that mean? Well if we consider the charge to abide in the same calling and if we are to never again be servants of men, and if we have been made free…to USE IT, then it must mean we are NEVER TO ALLOW OURSELVES TO BECOME SLAVES AGAIN though we can volunteer to serve others. In fact Romans 13 pretty much encourages Christians to BE PUBLIC SERVANTS because as PUBLIC SERVANTS we are technically BEING THE SERVANTS OF GOD and that Paul said again above THOSE WHO ARE SERVANTS OF CHRIST are FREE MEN.
I hate to say it but Paul tells us in Romans 13:7 according to the Greek, that we are only to pay that which is OWING, and if 1 Corinthians 7 tells us that we CANNOT be servants, then according to the threshold of slavery that God sets forth (AS AN HONEST BALANCE AND WEIGHT no doubt) in 1 Samuel 8, we must give whatever is owing UP TO 9.99 PERCENT and no higher. Therefore we render unto Caesar what is due and we must not forget as Christians desiring to be servants of God, to give him that tenth or larger which demonstrates we are indeed in practice THE SERVANTS OF GOD. This and not some command to tithe, is why a tenth is given in service to the Lord. The Church cannot use the tithe of the old testament, lest it be underfunded because the whole tithe was NOT to be placed in the storehouse which housed the portion of the tithe given as well as much of the free will offerings. Remember some of that tithe was to be rendered into money by those far away from the temple in order to buy food for themselves during the several feasts per year they were commanded to attend, or eaten directly from that store they brought with them to the feast if Jerusalem was near.
But now concerning SOCIALISM in the Bible:
The two Garys have brought up good points which shows that all charity was distributed to one another in a private setting, not allowing the government to be part and parcel of the collection or the distributing of it. Remember charity is that word the translators of our Bible used to translate the Greek word AGAPE, which is actually defined UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and is something that only Christians can do, and that means governments CAN NEVER DO CHARITY. Why? Because government theft of the goods of the people to be redistributed as largesse to the community has never been done without some string, mandate, condition or covert/overt demand for some political remuneration. So, technically, governments CANNOT do charity.
The Bible tells us how we are to deal with society and what the responsibilities of the people and their civil servants are.
Luke shows in his gospel that John the Baptist was preaching the baptism for those who repent and John was asked some question by several members of general society and workers in government.
Luke 3:7-14(KJV)
7Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
10And THE PEOPLE asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
11He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. [THE PEOPLE ARE TO DO CHARITY]
12Then came also PUBLICANS [taxmen] to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
13And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. [THE PEOPLE ARE TO BE PAID ONLY THAT WHICH IS OWING and for free men UP TO 9.99 percent of one’s increase]
14And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. [THE RIGHTEOUS MAGISTRATES, SERVANTS OF GOD, ARE TO CONSIDER THEMSELVES SERVANTS BY THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVE WAGES AND THEY CANNOT TAKE THAT WHICH IS BEYOND THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE, LEST THEY, REPRESENTING GOVERNMENT, TEND TO BE MASTERS OF THE PEOPLE – which John Locke calls REBELLION against t he people].
Governments are NOT to be terrors to good works, says Paul, and who will harm you if you do well, is the incredulous question of Peter? But Peter’s incredulity becomes reality when he says in case governments DO become terrors, not to be afraid of their terror but continue to do Good, until we no longer are afraid of government by doing good.
God is not interested in how we treat our fellow human beings when a gun is held to our heads. He wants us to be free to choose to do good of our own accord as individuals.
An able-bodied man who does not steal, even though he could easily do so is virtuous. A man whose hands have been cut off is not virtuous for being unable to take what belongs to others.
Socialism is is evil and incompatible with Christianity or any genuinely coherent code of ethics.
The New Testimont of the Bible again and again reports that we as Christians give to the poor, but I have not found a single instance that is referring to government doing so. We as Christians should be charitable. The only thing that I can see in the Bible referring to government is “give unto Caesar’ what is Cesar’s”. I believe that this is more than just to concern taxes. I believe that it is a call to all for us to follow our government dictates. If we can change them is a different matter. If our government does not follow our constitution definitely gives us an opportunity to do what is right. We must separate our goals in our heavenly kingdom, which is really what the Bible addresses, from our struggle on this earth.
Pasul Schnake
Winston is correct. Socialism is not biblical. To illustrate the difference between Socialism (or whatever you want to call it) and Christianity:
Chrisitianity says “What is mine is yours. I humbly, freely offer it to you. Take what you need.”
Socialism says (arrogantly, fiercly) “What is yours is mine. If you do not give it voluntarily, I will take
it by force. I will take all that I desire to take, even everything , including your life.”
Socialism is NOT Biblical. God’s Word, Jesus, tells us to “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s”. When Caesar (government) tells us that we have no choice (opposed to free will to choose) how much of our income should go to taxes to give undeservedly to another group of citizens (or even non-citizens) to “spread the wealth” is nothing less than thievery. Statistics prove that good citizens give charitable gifts to the deserving far greater by free will/personal choice than what government steals from them for political reasons.
Winston is correct.
The term, “Socialism” is just another abused word. Those that would subjugate free and independent individuals have always tickled the ears of their victims. Consider the true meaning of the word, “social.” ORIGIN: late Middle English : from Old French, or from Latin socialis ‘allied,’ from socius ‘friend.’ The suffix ‘ism” falsely attempts to add a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement : “..of all the isms, fascism is the most repressive.ism” This example demonstrates how utterly useless is the term “Socialism.”
The use of the term “fascism” is equally equivocal. Christian Doctrine is unequivocal. Usury is an abomination that is prohibited by our Father’s Law. The Christians that founded this union of free-state republics called America were clear in their mandate. No State shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debt. Today no such lawful money circulates. Instead all must buy or sell only with the mark of the Beast (financial credit) . The The Bogus Central Bank Credit Fraud is essential for the repression of The People. For this reason it shall not be tolerated. The unlawful Public Policies compelled by deadly force in America and its occupied lands is far worse than that of the former Soviet Union. Yes! That is so! Our King Yahushua executing the Law of the Almighty Creator, declared of himself: “All power is given unto me in heaven and on earth… Go ye therefore and make disciples of all men… and teach all nations to observe [obey] all things whatsoever I have commanded you.” We are commanded to love our neighbor as we love ourself. This duty is not delegated to renegade public servants. Public servants may not do as they wish but must do as We The People command them in obedience to the command of our Father. Until Americans abandoned their social duties America prospered because Americans upheld the law. Americans have caused the entire world to fail because Americans tolerate renegade public servants that disregard the Law of our Father and establish pagan law and false credit. The formerly Free Society of Christians in America loved their neighbor. Today deluded people perish for lack of knowledge. Brothers, your question and answer concerning “How much Socialism is in the Bible” is a logical fallacy that begs the question. The arbitrary term “socialism” forms a non sequitur. The Word in the Bible is clarity, not confusion. Like miscegenation, the act of mixing incompatible elements sets asunder what our Father, the Almighty Creator, has joined together. The earliest colonies abandoned any practice of communal property. The best Society thrives in a community of independent free individuals acting as stewards holding their own property. The needy were always cared for by the free-will gifts of the individual People of the Free States. Government largesse never saves any people but destroys all. America was great while Americans were obedient. The current crisis is the failure that is sure to follow disobedience.
It was not the Christian German Nationalists that darkened the skies of Europe with Death From Above.” It was Americans that established the Ant-Christ Jewist Communist Party and the Soviet Union to conquer and destroy European Christian Society. It was the disobedient Americans that paid to send the Bolshevik Communist hoards and their own children to kill and to be killed so that the synagogue of Satan can prosper without labor. When the obedient Christian Nationalist Germans abolished the Bogus Bank Credit Fraud and expelled the proprietor Jews, it was the disobedient Americans that killed their friends neighbors and families in Germany and all of the world. Of course to justify this crime the Jewist Americans bear false witness blaming the war on Adolf Hitler and falsely claiming that the Nazis exterminated six million Jews that now control America! You know like the lies concerning the murder of JKF, Gordon Kahl , Vicky and Sammy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, the Christian men, women and children burned at Waco, Texas, the Children and other victims at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, the thousands consumed by the atrocity at WTC and Pentagon, the millions that die and suffer life destroying incapacity in all the bogus wars to occupy the world.
Americans had previously killed their own children on both sides of the bogus Civil War to Destroy the Rights of Individuals and that of the Free States of the perpetual union by Sherman’s March To The Sea to prostrate the Debt-Free Christian Southern States. It was Christian Nationalists of Germany that obeyed the Law and removed the criminal from the Fatherland. It was these that defended against the Jewist American Communist War of Conquest to destroy Christian Society. Americans crushed these of the Kingdom. How gracious is our Father to delay His Just Wrath! Americans cannot repent because Americans will not confess.
Faith without works is Dead. “Take up your cross and follow me.”
NO KING BUT KING YAHUSHUA
In His service,
Reinhold