I knew it would happen. The latest incident in Israel has brought out the prophetic speculators again. “A council of rabbis in Israel says their nation’s conflict with Turkey over a flotilla of ‘aid’ ships headed for the blockaded Gaza Strip controlled by the terrorist Hamas organization just may be the beginning of the ‘Gog and Magog process where the world is against us, but which ends with the third and final redemption’” (see here). Picking up on the story, Christian prophecy speculator Joel Rosenberg takes a similar position but with some caution:
There is growing interest in the Ezekiel prophecies and whether they could play out in our lifetime. I believe it is still too early to say anything definitively. But I agree that current events are strikingly consistent with the prophecies and I believe it is possible that we could see these events unfold soon. The mention of “Gomer” in Ezekiel, for example, refers to the modern-day State of Turkey which will be an enemy of Israel and part of a Russian-Iranian alliance against the Jewish state. I’m not saying the prophecy will necessarily come to pass soon, but I can’t rule out that possibility. We’ve never seen a convergence of geopolitical and spiritual events so consistent with Ezekiel 38–39 in history like we are seeing today (see here).
One of the arguments used to futurize Ezekiel’s prophecy 2600 years from the time it was written is the claim that the Hebrew word rosh in Ezekiel 38:2–3 and 39:1 sounds like Russia. So then why doesn’t “Gomer” sound like some modern-day nation? Why Turkey? If God wanted to identify Turkey 2600 years ago, then why didn’t He use some sound-alike word that would identify modern Turkey? The same is true of the other nations listed in Ezekiel.
There is no need to speculate beyond the historical boundaries of Ezekiel’s day to force the names of these ancient nations to find a place on a modern-day map and conform to today’s geo-political landscape. Iain Duguid’s comments are helpful in accounting for the historical realities of Ezekiel’s prophecy:
[Gog] is the commander-in-chief ([chief prince]) of a coalition of forces gathered from the ends of the earth. He himself is from the land of Magog, and he rules over Meshech-Tubal. His allies include Persia, Cush, and Put (38:5), along with Gomer and Beth Togarmah (38:6). It is no coincidence that together these make up a total of seven nations, and it is significant that they are gathered from the uttermost parts of the known world to the prophet. Meshech-Tubal, Gomer, and Beth Togarmah come from the North, Put (Northwest Egypt) and Cush (southern Egypt) from the south and west, while Persia is to the east of Judah.[1]
Ezekiel was given a revelation that was describing his world. You don’t have to be a biblical scholar to figure this out. The people making up these nations were alive and well and living in proximity to Israel in Ezekiel’s day. There is no question about this claim. There is no way to refute it. To maintain that the nations that attack Israel are nations in our day is not allowing the Bible to speak for itself. “To seek the fulfillment in the dark region of the end of the days,” Ernest Hengstenberg (1802–1868) writes, “is the less possible, because most of the nations named either no longer exist, or are no longer heathen. Magog, Gomer, Meshech and Tubal, Phut, Sheba, and Dedan, are no more to be found”[2] on any modern map.
If the battle described in Ezekiel 38–39 does not refer to modern-day nations that will attack Israel, then when and where in biblical history did this conflict take place? Instead of looking to the distant future or finding fulfillment in a historical setting outside the Bible where we are dependent on unreliable secular sources, James B. Jordan believes that “it is in [the book of] Esther that we see a conspiracy to plunder the Jews, which backfires with the result that the Jews plundered their enemies. This event is then ceremonially sealed with the institution of the annual Feast of Purim.”[3] Jordan continues by establishing the context for Ezekiel 38 and 39:
Ezekiel describes the attack of Gog, Prince of Magog, and his confederates. Ezekiel states that people from all over the world attack God’s people, who are pictured dwelling at peace in the land. God’s people will completely defeat them, however, and the spoils will be immense. The result is that all nations will see the victory, and “the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day onward” (Ezek. 39:21–23). . . . Chronologically this all fits very nicely. The events of Esther took place during the reign of Darius, after the initial rebuilding of the Temple under Joshua [the High Priest] and Zerubbabel and shortly before rebuilding of the walls by Nehemiah. . . . Thus, the interpretive hypothesis I am suggesting (until someone shoots it down) is this: Ezekiel 34–37 describes the first return of the exiles under Zerubbabel, and implies the initial rebuilding of the physical Temple. Ezekiel 38–39 describes the attack of Gog (Haman) and his confederates against the Jews. Finally, Ezekiel 40–48 describes in figurative language the situation as a result of the work of Nehemiah.[4]
Ezekiel 38:5–6 tells us that Israel’s enemies come from “Persia, Cush, and . . . from the remote parts of the north. . . ,” all within the boundaries of the Persian Empire of Esther’s day. From Esther we learn that the Persian Empire “extended from India to Cush, 127 provinces. . .” in all (Esther 8:9). Ethiopia (Cush) and Persia are listed in Esther 1:1 and 3 and are also found in Ezekiel 38:5. The other nations were in the geographical boundaries “from India to Ethiopia” in the “127 provinces” over which Ahasueras ruled (Esther 1:1). “In other words, the explicit idea that the Jews were attacked by people from all the provinces of Persia is in both passages,”[5] and the nations listed by Ezekiel were part of the Persian empire of his day. The parallels are unmistakable (There are many more parallels that can be found in my book Why the End of the World is Not in Your Future.) Even Ezekiel’s statement that the fulfillment of the prophecy takes place in a time when there are “unwalled villages” (Ezek. 38:11) is not an indication of a distant future fulfillment as Grant Jeffrey attempts to argue:
It is interesting to note that during the lifetime of Ezekiel and up until 1900, virtually all of the villages and cities in the Middle East had walls for defense. Ezekiel had never seen a village or city without defensive walls. Yet, in our day, Israel is a “land of unwalled villages” for the simple reason that modern techniques of warfare (bombs and missiles) make city walls irrelevant for defense. This is one more indication that his prophecy refers to our modern generation.
* * * * *
Ezekiel’s reference to “dwell safely” and “without walls . . . neither bars nor gates” refers precisely to Israel’s current military situation, where she is dwelling safely because of her strong armed defense and where her cities and villages have no walls or defensive bars. The prophet had never seen a city without walls, so he was astonished when he saw, in a vision, Israel dwelling in the future without walls. Ezekiel lived in a time when every city in the world used huge walls for military defense.[6]
In Esther we learn that there were Jews who were living peacefully in “unwalled towns” (KJV) (9:19) when Haman conspired against them. Israel’s antagonists in Ezekiel are said to “go up against the land of unwalled villages” (Ezek. 38:11). The Hebrew word perazah is used in Esther 9:19 and Ezekiel 38:11. This fits the conditions of Esther’s day. Jeffrey is mistaken in his assertion that “Ezekiel had never seen a village or city without defensive walls.” They seemed to be quite common outside the main cities. Moreover, his contention that Israel is currently “dwelling safely because of her strong armed defense” is patently untrue. Since 2006, the Israeli government has built more than 435 miles of walls in Israel.
There are many more parallels between Ezekiel 38–39 and Esther, Ezra, and Nehemiah. I had one emailer argue with me over the above summary interpretation. He fed me all the standard end-time arguments that are popular with interpretations of Ezekiel 38–39. When I told him to purchase my book Why the End of the World is Not in Your Future and offer a detailed response, he wrote the following: “I’m not buying prophecy books just now, but I will accept a complimentary copy for review.” This is a person who is not serious about Bible study. He’s afraid of what he will find. He wanted to know if I belonged to the “Allegorism school of interpretation” that dismisses a literal interpretation. As I show in my book, I am very literal. I don’t turn horses into “horsepower, bows and arrows into “launching pads” and “missiles,” or chariots into tanks. When the text says “to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods” (Ezek. 38:13), it means silver, gold, cattle, and goods (Ezra 1:4) and not natural gas, potash, or oil.
He and many others like him have adopted a system of interpretation that locks him into a theology of irrelevance. Here is his final comment to me: “Things are winding up very rapidly these days.” Yes they are. We are witnessing the end of humanism. Either get on board to make it happen through the preaching of the gospel, applying the Bible to every area of life, and building an alternative society when the inevitable collapse comes or get out of the way. There won’t be a “rapture” to rescue you. Deal with it.
Endnotes:- Iain M. Duguid, Ezekiel: The NIV Application Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1999), 448. [↩]
- E. W. Hengstenberg, The Prophecies of the Prophet Ezekiel Elucidated, trans. A. C. Murphy and J. G. Murphy (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1869), 331. [↩]
- James B. Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History (Niceville, FL: Biblical Horizons, 1995), 5. [↩]
- Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History, 7. [↩]
- Jordan, Esther in the Midst of Covenant History, 7. [↩]
- Grant R. Jeffrey, The Next World War: What Prophecy Reveals About Extreme Islam and the West (Colorado Springs, CO: WaterBrook Press, 2006), 143, 147–148. [↩]
Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. Author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles, he also hosts The Gary DeMar Show, and History Unwrapped—both broadcasted and podcasted. Gary has lived in the Atlanta area since 1979 with his wife, Carol. They have two married sons and are enjoying being grandparents to their grandsons, Calvin and Paul. Gary and Carol are members of Midway Presbyterian Church (PCA).
Out of curiosity, I'd love to know how many souls have been saved and or needy people directly served from all of this research, study and interpritation? Having a deeper understanding is important, but quite honestly, if Christ came back right now, what do you think he'd be most proud of? Our prophetic accuracy or our "soul winning" efforts and service to others (the basics). After reading some of the posts, it appears some could be suffering from "analysis paralysis". I'll leave with a few questions. First, how well do you know your enemy and second, do you think he (Satan) has anything to do with diverting Christians from the basics? I believe that we Christians walk a slippery slope when it comes to "pride in understanding" and obedience through Christian action. And finally, how much should "work time" outweigh "research time"? Come on my Christian brothers and sisters, we have work to do! As for me and my house, we just got home from our outreach service at the ROC. God Bless you all!
We must remember, when dealing with Biblical escatology, that prophecies concerning "end time events" often have a "double reference". Yes, Ezekiel's prophecy was absolutely on the mark for his "time period", but this does not negate the fact that that exact same prophecy will not be enacted once again. Explain, for example, the 83'rd. Psalm which named the ancient enemies of Israel according to the names of the nations then used. Is it just mere coincidence, that every single one of these now "modern" nations is Muslim – and an enemy of Israel? When our Lord quoted Isaiah 61:1,2 in Luke 4:18,19 He omitted the last sentence of verse 2 of Isaiah concerning the "day of vengeance". This is because at His First Advent, He did not come to judge but to save and offer Himself a sacrifice for all who would believe. If Isaiah 61:1,2 had been fulfilled at His First Advent, then our Lord must have "made a mistake". GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES! Ezekiels prophecies will exactly occur just as stated, and we will all marvel at Israel's victory – Believer and unbeliever alike! Maranatha.
In addition to what I've just written, here is more information to support the linguistic assertion claimed by Joel Rosenberg.
Togarmah (Hebrew: תּוגרמה/Togarmah ; Armenian: Թորգոմ/T’orgom ; Georgian: თარგამოს/T’argamos) third son of Gomer, and grandson of Japheth, brother of Ashkenaz and Riphat (Genesis 10:3). He is held to be the ancestor of the peoples of the South Caucasus (the Georgians and the Armenians).
T'orgmom, T'argamos. Sure sounds closer to our Turkman, Turkey "English" variants now, doesn't it?
In the very passage quoted, i.e., Ezekiel 38:6, …Beth Togarmah… is more often referring to the people of the Anatolian peninsula, hence Turks as we know them today. Togarmah in linguistic variants might indeed reference our modern name "Turkey". After all, Togarmah was spawned by Gomer and the lineage would be correct. Would this not then lend some credence to the prophecy?
I have always held a pre-tribulationist view regarding end-times prophecy. If you believe there will be no rapture, how and where do those teachings by both Jesus and Paul fit into your belief system regarding eschatology? Obviously, the event that we describe as the rapture will occur at some point–when would that be? I find it hard to believe that the Lord would disregard all of His promises made to his elect in Holy Scripture, and just dump the church (His body) into the morass that is inevitable during the tribulation. I am trying very hard to understand your viewpoint.
Also, doesn't your viewpiont that so many of these passages of Scripture have long since been fulfilled take away from the hope of Christ's return? I am very confused.
I have just purchased your dvd series, but I have not had a chance to watch any, save the first two sections of the first dvd. Perhaps some of these questions will be answered in the series. Your interpretation of Scripture is very different from what I have been taught. My hope has always been that the Lord would not tarry in collecting the Body of Christ when these events begin to unfold.
God's Blessings, dj
Your right, Buying his DVD is a waste of money he;s base- less in his beliefs He's just another "Oh look your all wrong but me"He is not worth the time to answer ,(Cast not pearls before swine)
foreverblessed, it truly is a blessing to believe in Jesus and the salvation He brings. But in regard to the rapture found in 1 Thess. 4:13 ff, people are seeking an answer to the wrong question. Paul addresses the question,
"What about the Christians who die before His return." Paul does not address the status of those outside of Christ and their ressurrection to face judgement. The dead in Christ will be resurrected and the living in Christ will be changed and called up into heaven , "and so shall we eveer be with the Lord."
Read the entire conrtext and you will see that Christ coming will be as a thief in the night, (no sign, no warning).
Christians who are watching will be saved while those outside of Christ will see their destruction.
Friend, My hope is not that Christ will take us out of this world, but that He will keep us from the evil one: This is the Prayer of JESUS CHRIST our HIGH PRIEST; this is my prayer; this is the Prayer of CHRIST in JOHN 17:!5. Please read John 17:15, you who "hope and pray" for a pre-tribulation rapture to save you from Antichrist. Christ can save us from Antichrist without taking us out of the world (ST. JOHN 17:!5). AMEN. In Erie Scott R. Harrington
I agree with jayleigh. We should be watchful of the times and signs, because events are shaping up according to prophecy as Iran, Russia, Germany, Turkey and even the US government conspire against Israel. Europe is anti-semitic, as is most of the world. But as a Messianic believer in Jesus (Yeshua) I know the final outcome of these battles. Yeshua will fight for Israel when the entire world tries to destroy her. All the remnant of Jewish survivors will reallize that Jesus was their own Jewish Messiah and repent and believe when they see Yeshua destroying their enemies right and left. These are dangerous times, but believers in Jesus know the outcome and rejoice! The Bible still speaks the truth!
For a detailed geographical synopsis check out:
Hyper-Gog http://www.tribwatch.com/farnorth.htm
The name Haman from the book of Esther sounds suspiciously like "Hamas" would you all not agree?
Beastslayer
Wisconsin
I have read where Gomer means Germany and where GOG and Magog refer to Russia and China.
Humanism is not ending yet.John talked about a one world government that would come,that 7 headed beast.The governments of the world are working towards that our government since Ronald Reagan has been working hard towards it.Reagan was the first President I can recall to use the phrase "New World Order" and Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton said they would help each other (during Clinton's first election run) to help continue the Reagan legacy and hel[ bring about a New World Order.Nafta is pert of that making ALL nations "interdependent" in order to keep ANY one nation from being sovereign.
Reagan WAS NOT a member of the Council on Foreign Reelations (as is both Clintons,both Dubya and Daddy ,Dick Cheney,Obama,and the list goes on) ,dont forget! Ronnie was a true patriot who hated communism. Reagan was elected because he was very popular with the people and Bush SR actually ran the government esp during Reagans second term because he was so old and Bush easily duped him. DONT YOU DARE DEGRADE RON REAGAN,HE WAS A TRUE PATRIOT!!!!
i studied Hebrew for 7 years and learned in an interesting word study learned that Gomer – means "finished" and Germany takes it's name from Gomer. While the prophetic world of Ezekiel's time included Turkey as Gomer, Germany's treatment of the Jews in the 1930s and into WWII years has had a terrifying impact on the state of Germany today. The promise/prophecy to the world has always been that to those who bless Israel, there is reward; to those who curse Israel belongs doom. It is a fearful thing to me that for the first time in history, we have a President who blesses the enemies of Israel and "curses" Israel by making demands on her that show his disdain. The Kings who march against Israel of course include the "kings of the north" and when you look at the world map, you can see that not only Turkey, but Germany, Russia, China are included in those Northern "kingdoms" – and all of them are opposed to the State of Israel. But God will write "Gomer" over all, including the USA if "we" persist in allowing our administration to disregard or oppress Israel. We are living in dangerous times.
I think all the Biblical "prophecies," like those of Nostradamus, can be applied to essentially any time period.
That seems to be the case when futurist spin in placed on prophecy However, if the "prophecy" is taken at face value and applied logically within the context of the actual passage, it couldn't be any more obvious. The Gog-Magog prophecy is a perfect example. In fact, the same principle can be applied with anything. Read the Declaration of Independence and discern for yourself who Jefferson was indicting. Was he talking about some future ruler of Great Britain or was he calling out King George III? Granted, the biblical prophecies are sometimes a little more involved only because we aren't as familiar with the culture of the day. Hence, it sometimes takes a little additional reading to get a firmer grasp on the situation.
At least Nostradamus had a gift for ambiguity, allowing his readers to make what they wanted of his predictions. Scripture, however, is clear clear clear. Gold, Silver, bows & arrows, cattle, etc. How Ezekiel could have been any more clear or specific is beyond me. In fact, one could just as easily make the case that Ezekiel actually wrote his prophecy after the fact, but I guess that's another argument.
Note: Someone mentioned above about Gary's comments regarding "the end of humanism." I'd love to read some more commentary on that. Is this is the situation in which the humanists have hijacked all they could from Christianity and basically have nothing left? You can't throw a gem like that out there and just leave us hanging. More, Gary, more….
Yes, Gary, please, tell us more about the 'end of humanism' ! Dr. Rushdoony wrote years ago that it was
crumbling and failing and would come to an end, and I believe that. But I would dearly love to hear/read what you can tell us, specifically about what will be a 'happy ending' !
You need to remember Daniel’s prophecy in interpreting the end time, which is;
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Da:12:1-2 This supports Jesus statement that there will be calamity in the end such that the world has never seen.
Neil, I assume your are writing about what Christ said in Matthew 24: 21? Where does Christ state this tribulation will happen at the "end" of the world? Matthew 24 primarily has to do with Christ's prophesies regarding the destruction of Jerusalem (thus, the Old Covenant elements) and such a prophesy incited the disciples as to ask when "the end of the age" was going to transpire. There is nothing in Christ's prophesy that would provoke a concern out of His disciples about a destruction or end of the planet. That's why Christ repeatedly uses the pronoun "you" and not the words "them" or "they" when responding. He was telling them quite clearly that "you", as in His contemporaries, were going to experience these events. This also puts statements such as "those who are in Judea flee to the mountains" and "him who is on the housetop" in their proper cultural, historical and grammatical context.
Right on Nicki!!! I advise people to read Matt. 24 in English and interpret it as one reads it. Jesus answers the first question “When?
Then he answers the “What sign?” Only one sign is given, the surrounding of Jerusalem by “camps” or armies. The Christians living in Jerusalem had time to heed the warning and fled to Pella.
The Father knows the time of Jesus return and He isn’t telling.
No one knows the second, minute, hour, day, week, century or millennium when Jesus will return. Every prediction since the first cdentury has proven false!
We all have our hopes for Christ's return but to say that Christians (other than you American Vision people) are sitting around doing nothing and just waiting for the rapture is just not true. Christians, at least the ones I know are praying and witnessing others to Christ. That's what we should all be doing and not putting others down for their particular bend on prophecy.
Mr LaRosa: Here lies the problem, a vast majority of Christians out there witnessing to others are ignorantly ministering a diluted Gospel to others that leads to a flawed eschatology. In other words, you have millions of so-called Christians who are ignorant complacent and/or apathetic in their understanding of the Word of God. This westernized "Gospel" has sent more people to their destruction than to their Salvation. Just a many falsely believe you can believe in Christ as Savior without believing He is also Lord, people also falsely believe you can be "saved" without ever coming to an understanding the Word of God! Without trying to obtain a proper prophetic understanding, you have no understanding of what you inherited when you came to Christ. A Christian who would be satisfied with that is probably not what they think they are.
Nick, you sound very righteous. Very SELF-righteous!!
Nick,
Where in God’s Word, can the edict of fully understanding God’s Word as being a requirement for salvation be found. I can’t find it. The thief on the cross didn’t have time to find it. Grace is undeserved favor and mercy is given by God and God only.
If there is nothing one can do to earn salvation; if all our righteousness is but filthy rags; if as sinners He loved me and you before we knew how to love Him, how could we know anything of God’s Word, before salvation, except that He first Loved us; He gave His Life for us; and He Loves us so much that even you and I are invited to join Him in this Great Love. God is Love and we are created in this image; not one of intellectual cognizance of God’s Word. Peace be unto you forever!
Salvatore, I agree with you. Not all Christians are witnessing with a diluted (and deluded!) Gospel. Jesus himself said that no one knows the time of his return save God the Father. I think studying eschatology is fine to a point. Too many Christians do seem to oppose scholarship and deride believers who seek more than a superficial knowledge of Christianity. You need look no further than your local Christian bookseller to see a near complete lack of intellectually challenging material. In sum, we should be aware of prophecy, understand it as best we can, but we must not study it to the exclusion of everything else in Scripture.
What is a disciple who knows not whom he serves? There are countless people who "think" they believe in and therefore know and follow Christ. In reality the lack of knowledge most of these "Christians" experience is because the person who discipled them was also lacking in understanding, to the point that they are both stumbling in the dark. Without a concise doctrine Christianity is little more than a cult of popularity or culture. Withouth a thorough understanding of how to confront our culture with Gods truth,we will continue to be perceived as brainwashed fools. Thankfully even if the church you attend has a passive pastor who doesn't care about your education in doctrine, the bible provides the example of the apostles to point you in the right direction. We have the example of Paul and his journeys to Athens, and subsequent preaching on Mars Hill, to provide the basis of apologetics; Acts Chapter 17. Most Christians are still in need the sincere milk of the word, not the stumbling blocks of heretical and dogmatic eschatology to grow and mature.
Well I concur with Paul the Apostle.
"All the promises of God (through the law & the prophets) are (fulfilled) in Christ 2 Cor 1:20, anything else is just wresting the scripture out of context. As I teach a scripture out of context is no longer God's but man's word.
Jesus said that this gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to all nations (Roman world) then the end shall come. A few weeks later Jesus said that 'you shall be my witnesses, not to all the world, or nations, BUT the ends of the earth'. I am convinced that the Lord has been 'pushing' certain individuals, of which I am one, to work to 're-establish the centrality of the Kingdom, when that happens the end of the old/current system will occur.
There is something to be said that much study can become wearisome. Perhaps that is when we, under are own strength, THINK we are comprehending Gods will but are really just formulating are own interpretation. For myself I find this is the time to be still and listen to what God himself is telling me thru his spirit and by listening intstead of allowing my mind to speak. It is the triune God that directs us leading us and not vise-versa. There is ample room in Gods will to direct us in all truth and follow his word to it's ultimate fulfillment world without end and that, we must agree, includes heaven above.His grace is sufficient as Paul says.
Praise God that the gospel is being preached throughout the world today by every means available. But to say this is a sign that the end is near may be overlooking what the Scriptures
said. Paul in Col. 1:23 said that “the gospel which you heard has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, …”
The end in reference is not to the end of the world but rather to the destruction of Jerusalem,
Matt. 24:14.
Gary,
The thing that most interests me about your latest (excellent) article is your aside that "We are witnessing the end of humanism".
Tell us more…
Alex A
Luppitt, UK
I know I am stretching here, but doesn't Gomer sound like gooble, gooble.
The word Haman from Esther sounds quite a bit like the modern day "Hamas" wouldn't you all agree?
Beastslayer
Wisconsin
Gary
You come across as a schoffer and a naysayer, II Peter 3. One who is overly and arrogantly impressed by his own wisdom.
For years the children of Isreal was scattered all over the world. They still are but are returning to the pormised land just as the prophets said. What did they call the land of Isreal when they weren't there? Just how important are man made borders to God? So I don't understand the importance in the change in the geopolitical landscape in the regions that concern this prophecy.